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    master volume settings

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    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: master volume settings

    Post by ConradK on Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:19 am

    Just tried the exact same setting at home and it sounds better with the higher volume / lower gain setting!

    Im going to try the 5 watt setting with higher volumes on both channells, next week
    Im also going to tweak eq's (ie bump the mids more) & im going to
    throw and eq pedal into the loop for good measure (if the bump in mids does not cut through)

    Any other suggestions (besides what i am going to try next week) for "cutting through" without turning up the volume, blowing everyone's ears off and losing your tone?

    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: master volume settings

    Post by ConradK on Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:33 am

    Ok bordinbert after a lot of research I'm in agreement with you (not that I did not believe you) it's just that I believe you should always make your decisions based on more than one opinion!

    Some facts from my research

    Yes this amp is going to sound better with a higher master volume setting as this seems to be true of all good valve amps.

    This amp is going to sound different in my home studio than when I'm playing with my band due the frequencies occupied by various instruments. There is also the fletcher Munson syndrome to take into account !

    In a band setting - You are going to have to experiment with boosting your mids , cutting your bass and treble frequencies (and also working your treble with the prescience knob)

    Simply throwing an od pedal at the amp (with low master volume and high gain) is NOT going to solve the problem in fact it will be it worse

    18 watts and even 5 wAtts with higher master volume, lower gain and some Eq twiddling (higher mids , lower bass and working with your bass player so that he cuts some mids if necessary and you cut bass) is what's going to get you perceiving your life e tone as good as the one you set at home !
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    gravydb

    Posts : 193
    Join date : 2014-06-22
    Location : PA

    Re: master volume settings

    Post by gravydb on Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:40 pm

    Leap of faith here. My first live show with the GM (and my band's first live show in over a year) is this Thurs night. I have re-saved all my presets @ 18w in my quest for better tone... I do hear an improvement here at home vs 36w (but what will it be like in a live environment?)...

    As a "just in case" thing, I should pre-program 36w versions (and perhaps 5w versions?) of my presets. We'll see. We're only playing one 80 minute set, so it's not like I'm going to have a break to reset things, it's all going to be on-the-fly... we will have a decent sound check though...

    ConradK - I'm just curious, where did you end up with your treble/mid/bass settings? I know there's no one-size-suits-all, but I'm just curious where you ended up. Thanks. Currently I have them at noon.... the presense is at noon, and the resonance at 3:00 to try to fill things out a little better. I agree with other posts about the eq having a subtle range... the presence and resonance seem more effective.

    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: master volume settings

    Post by ConradK on Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:34 am

    Hi there

    I reset all my 36 watt presets to 18wAtts at home

    When I got to rehearsal - they sounded rubbish as Eq was all wrong (too much bass, treble and gain)

    I would suggest you save your 36watt presets as well so that if this happens to you - you have a backup plan as most of mine sounded bad.

    So I have reset all patches to 18watts and set my Eq pretty much the same for all patches - whilst Eq is not EXACTLY the same for every song - as some require more bass or less mids for example - the settings between songs is pretty close

    (we are rehearsing tonight) so please remember that I have set my Eq to what I think will sound good in the band context, what I think will cut through the mix and also what I think sounds right. I have NOT tried them yet (but will this evening) - logic, research and my ears tell me these will work (famous last words!)

    I'm after a blues rock and hard rock tone on most songs so I have based a lot of my tone on whole lotta love as although pages sound is trebly he backs off the bass and has definitely boosted the mids - leaving the bassist to do his job and page to do his.

    Cut my bass (remember this is the bassists job) (36)

    Cut my treble, (as already laboured this amp is too trebly) (20)

    boosted my mids (to cut through) (77) - well see this evening of this setting is too high , if it is I'll back off a little on the mids.

    cut my gain (to achieve that rock tone of the 70's and create a thick tone) (24)

    SOLOS
    I've used the ("low gain lead " patch as Std for my solos as I like the sound of that) I have also used the boosted lead version of that patch for the teenage kicks solo (with my neck pickup)

    Also check out the "modern rock rhtymn" patch as I tweaked that one (lower gain, mid boost AND dropped treble) to create a decent sound for proud Mary, stuck in the middle with you etc.

    To my ears these settings reduce the over trebly sound the amp is known for, drops the bass (for the bassist to do his job) and with the mid boost and lower gain - should mean I can do my job this evening - be the rock guitarist !

    Good luck gravydb - I'll report back my findings
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    gravydb

    Posts : 193
    Join date : 2014-06-22
    Location : PA

    Re: master volume settings

    Post by gravydb on Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:11 am

    Thanks. Those settings, are they on the scale from 0-255, like on the app? It hadn't crossed my mind to try values so low, but I'll give it a shot when I get a chance.

    I keep thinking about how subtle the bass/mid/treble controls are... and maybe it'd be better to just leave em at noon and use the presence/resonance as global controls to tweak per circumstances.

    I'm anxious to hear how your rehearsal went, and any adjustments you may have made. Thanks!

    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: master volume settings

    Post by ConradK on Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:25 am

    Hi gravdydb

    those are the values on the the i pad app (if you click show values) it shows you the actual values of all button positions.

    Basically my bass and treble are kind of 9 o clock ish and the mids are 2 o clock ish for most songs - this is a typical "mid bump" setting which would look like an inverted v on an equaliser pedal - im sure i may find the mids are to heavily bumped tonight but if thats the case ill just bring them back a little.

    Bear in mind im using an esp ltd with active pickups (emg 81 / 85) so my guitar is bassy enough (which is why im cutting the bass heavily for most patches)

    Ill BE BACK!
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    bordonbert

    Posts : 767
    Join date : 2015-01-28
    Age : 97
    Location : Southern England

    Re: master volume settings

    Post by bordonbert on Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:38 am

    Don't know if I mentioned this in this thread earlier but a good way to approach the voicing thing is as follows.

    Hardly anyone will need more than a handful of goto voices and a few special cases. Consider your current 32 banks of 4 voices as 4 blocks of 8 banks.  That gives you 32 voices in each block.  Assuming you have your current voices saved in the first slots, that's between 1 and 32 voices in banks 1-8.

    Select the first one, 1A.
    Change only the power soak from 36W to 18W.
    Save it into a NEW slot starting at 9, that's 9A!
    Repeat saving the next one, 1B, into 9B.
    Continue with each voice adding 8 to the Bank number to save it and keeping the same letter.
    So when you reach 2A save that to 10A and so on right through your store of voices.

    That way you have give yourself the ability to work with your full set of 36W settings when you need to, or the same voices at 18W settings when that is better.  You can also trim the new 18W settings tone to match without losing the original 36W version.

    I have mine set up with an 8 bank block at 1W and an 8 bank block at 5W as well so I can do the whole thing from my living room to the full club environment.
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    gravydb

    Posts : 193
    Join date : 2014-06-22
    Location : PA

    Re: master volume settings

    Post by gravydb on Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:35 am

    Boy do I have some good news for you guys...
    Our show was last night. I did not have the benefit of 'one more rehearsal' to doublecheck my settings, so I had to wing it. I changed all my presets from 36w to 18w, and also put the treble/mid/bass at noon for all of them. I figured that was the safest way to set them, worst case scenario it wouldn't sound 'bad', ya know? I also put the res/pres controls into global mode, so that in a live situation I at least have SOME ability to shape the tone on the fly.

    So we're setting up our gear, getting ready for a soundcheck, and the soundguy (awesome btw) is dropping hints that he prefers a moderate stage volume to let the PA do the work. Perfectly fine with me, that's how I prefer to operate. But it made me wonder what his idea of 'moderate' was. Well, at 18w, with the channel volume at about 9:00-ish, I was able to get the master volume up to 12:00/1:00 before he said 'ok that's good'. Nice! And wow did it sound fantastic!!!! I didn't feel the need to mess with any EQ'ing at all (although I will eventually - it's just that noon turned out to be a great starting point for me).

    I am very very very happy.

    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: master volume settings

    Post by ConradK on Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:42 am

    Hi Gravydb

    I have now reset all mine to 18 watts as well. I am still finding that i can't get the master much past 9/10 o clock (with channell volume THE SAME) before it becomes too loud (in a rehearsal setting)

    I have bumped my mids to (3-4 o clock) and dropped my treble and bass right back (8 -10 o clock ish) - and i finding that's cutting through the mix, without producing too much treble. Bear in mind i am using EMG 81/85's though, so i have to cut the trebs and bass right back or else i drown out the bassist and tear the faces off the rest of the band!

    My gut feel is that at next week Mondays practice ill pull the mids back a little and boost the master volume some more.

    I used to use the noon eq setings when i was using 36 watts however after listening to my sound (on my setup) i reverted to the mid bump settings.

    I'm going to use bordonberts suggestion and set up various voicings at different wattages but that requires time - something im short supply of (like everyone else im sure)
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    gravydb

    Posts : 193
    Join date : 2014-06-22
    Location : PA

    Re: master volume settings

    Post by gravydb on Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:48 am

    The stage and room last night was pretty good size. That might account for me being able to goose up that master to 12:00/1:00. Also my pups are passive - probably yet another factor here.

    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: master volume settings

    Post by ConradK on Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:27 am

    Quick update on my tweaking and results achieved in a band setting as well as feedback on the influence of the master volume using passive pick-ups.

    I generally use an ESP LTD with emg active pickups 81/85 however after a recent GAS attack i bought a PRS SE bernie marsden (with humbuckers) so these pups don't have as high an output as the EMG actives.

    I concur with gravydb's comments above: I now have to turn my master volume to 12 o clock (to achieve with e similar volume levels as the actives) and NOW THE AMP has COME ALIVE!!.

    The tone with the vintage sounding PRS pick-ups is just beautiful guys! i feel the master volume needs to be pushed a little further, as the amp has JUST entered the beautiful "break up" territory BUT i have pushed the boundaries of my neighbours patience already!

    So for those with passive pickups: These are the settings which are working for me:

    18 watt setting unless its a clean patch (36watts gives the extra headroom)

    Master volume at 12 o clock or more !

    the "channell" volume knob at 12 o clock

    Bump the mids so you can cut through the mix and if you find your sound to boomy or trebly (occurs easily due to the different voicings of each channel) then cut your bass and/or treble and /also use the tone knob of the guitar.

    Lastly i have been experimenting with the use of overdrives with the clean channel - to achieve achieving other voicing (im after a more traditional British blues rock voicing - like the brit rock blues style achieved through a vox and a Gary Moore style of blues rock voicing, for example)

    I've tried the Joyo husky drive and have a Digitech bad monkey (it was good enough for Gary Moore!) arriving tomorrow - so ill let you know how these play together and whether any of them blow me away

    KEEP ROCKING !!

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