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    What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

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    HwyStar
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    What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

    Post by HwyStar on Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:19 am

    Mesa Booogie has their own V30's made for them. Does H & K use stock Celestion V30's or do they have their own brand of speakers made for them? These cabinets are set at 16 ohms so I am thinking they are stock speakers.

    I have an email into H & K support asking this question.
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    Kaipirinha

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    Re: What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

    Post by Kaipirinha on Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:59 am

    I bet this are stock Vintage 30.
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    HwyStar
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    Re: What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

    Post by HwyStar on Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:59 am

    H & K never got back to me. You are probable right. H & K sells a small fraction of cabinets compared to Mesa.

    Nice guitars Kalpirinha!


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    Hughes and Kettner GrandMeister 36, Suhr®️ PT-100 Signature Edition, Diezel Herbert v1, (2) Marshall 1960a 4x12 cabinets (G30s & Greenbacks - open back)
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    gravydb

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    Re: What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

    Post by gravydb on Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:11 am

    My H&K CC212 cab has Celestion Greenbacks in it (G12M). They don't list it on their main website anymore - I feel so left out! hahaha

    Anyway I love it. But I always wondered why it has greenbacks and not V30's like all their other cabs? Greenbacks are stock on the CC212.

    Anyone ever A/B greenbacks and V30's?

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    HwyStar
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    Re: What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

    Post by HwyStar on Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:22 pm

    I have Greenbacks and V30's in my 4x12 1960A Marshall Open back cabinet. They do sound different.

    Since I have been sick I haven't had the energy to engage the Greenbacks in the cabinet. I am currently running two V30's in the cabinet today using the GM36. When I get the Greenbacks active I will report back here. I have to re-do the wiring in the cabinet. That's why I'm dragging my heels.


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    Hughes and Kettner GrandMeister 36, Suhr®️ PT-100 Signature Edition, Diezel Herbert v1, (2) Marshall 1960a 4x12 cabinets (G30s & Greenbacks - open back)
    EBMM JP6 Family Reserve, Stratocasters, Les Pauls, Gibson, Martin

    normula1

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    Re: What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

    Post by normula1 on Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:03 am

    I opened my cab a couple of days ago and they're seem to be stock Chinese made Celestion V30s
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    yoMuzicMan

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    Re: What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

    Post by yoMuzicMan on Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:11 pm

    I have both the TM112 and TM212 cabinets and am using them with a GM36 head.  I was hoping to use the TM112 all the time but never really dug the sound (too bright).  So I got the TM212 to compare.

    The TM212 sounds warmer than the TM112.  And in my opinion is a better fit for the GM36 over the TM112 because the sound of the TM212 is closer to the Redbox output vs the TM112.  This allows me to create my patches using the Redbox output at home, and then hear a similar sound when using the TM212 at practice or shows.

    My understanding is both cabinets have the V30s in them.  I've opened the back of the TM112 to confirm this, and I see a V30 in it.  But I can't seem to pry the back off the TM212 to confirm the exact same V30s.

    I understand the TM212 will sound fuller because of the larger cabinet, but I don't understand why the TM112 is MUCH brighter than the TM212.

    Is it possible there are different kinds of V30s in each of these cabinets causing the TM112 to sound brighter than the TM212?  As for breaking in the speakers, I've played them about the same amount of time, and they've really never changed much since I've owned them.  The TM212 was warmer from the start, whereas the TM112 was brighter.

    I'd like to get the TM112 to sound less bright like the TM212.  I suppose I could replace the V30 with something else.

    Thoughts or comments?

    Thanks,
    Ron

    normula1

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    Re: What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

    Post by normula1 on Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:51 am

    I totally agree that the 112 is way brighter. I A / B'd them when I bought my GM as the 212 is quite big, but even my very tolerant wife who happened to be with me at the time said the 212 sounded way nicer.

    The 212 is ported so maybe that's the difference.
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    yoMuzicMan

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    Re: What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

    Post by yoMuzicMan on Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:18 am

    Glad it's not just me with this observation. Thanks for the reply. Smile

    I just looked at the H&K website which indicates both the TM112 and TM212 are ported. And I recall seeing the holes in the TM112 cabinet when I removed the back to look at the speaker.

    Maybe I'll do more research on how to modify the cabinet to reduce the brightness without replacing the V30. I'd love to use this cabinet most of the time since it's so compact.
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    Egads

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    Re: What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

    Post by Egads on Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:46 pm

    It looks like both cabs are running at 16 Ohms. The difference could be in the resistance per speaker. Most likely, it's the increased bass response of the larger box. I bet if you were to put one of the 2x12 cab speakers in the 1x12 cab, you'd probably not hear too much tonal difference, even considering the resistance difference.
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    bordonbert

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    Re: What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

    Post by bordonbert on Sun May 17, 2015 7:29 pm

    I don't want to be too controversial here if it isn't wanted but just for the record, any speaker in a cabinet of volume V should sound exactly the same as two similar speakers in a cabinet of volume 2V. The bigger cabinet does not have a deeper bass response because of its greater size. For the same cone excursion, the compression within it remains exactly the same.  That's the laws of physics.  I'm not pushing an idea of my own here, it's a well established fact argued by top speaker designers like Jay Mitchell, (a guy who takes no prisoners in a technical discussion).

    Imagine having your 2x12 cabinet and inserting a solid baffle across the middle dividing it into two exactly equal parts in both shape and volume.  The pressures on the baffle are 0. Each speaker produces exactly the same increase and decrease of pressure within both volumes on either side of it, and each is exactly the same as the 1 x 12. Would you expect the sound to change character?  If so, what can possibly be causing it? Panel resonances may change due to the larger areas involved but this only affects frequencies well above the bottom end.

    Assuming the 2 x 12 has exactly twice the volume of the 1 x 12, if there is a difference between the two, (and I think you report there is), then there must be something else causing it.  I think one thing to consider may be that, if your 2 x 12 has two 8ohm speakers in series, then the driving conditions of each speaker are very different to the 1 x 12.  The 1 x 12 sees its signal coming from an impedance of just the output of the amp.  The 2 x 12 speakers each see their signal coming from a higher impedance, (the amp output impedance + the other speaker), and assuming these are about equal, the damping factor will be halved.  This may make an audible difference.
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    Phrasemaker

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    Re: What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

    Post by Phrasemaker on Sat May 30, 2015 10:34 am

    I think bordonbert is on the right track re: the comments around impedance in respect of the amp's output. 2 speakers wired series or parallel are going to present a totally different load to be driven. The transient peaks across various frequencies will differ when using a single speaker cabinet or one with a pair. It's very noticeable when going to extremes i.e switching from say a 1 x 10 cabinet to a 4 x 12. The 4 x 12 immediately feels like it might dis-articulate the human skeleton where as the small cabinet when plugged in instead, does not have it's cone flapping about in the wind trying to deliver lower frequencies it shines much more in the mids and highs.

    The damping factor is certainly playing a part, trying to reign in two or more 12" cones at the point where they change direction to either push or pull is going to set up different sound characteristics as the mechanical mass changes with each speaker loading. The bigger movements which produce the lower frequencies are going to become more prevalent as the connected load increases in size.
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    mlove143777

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    Re: What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

    Post by mlove143777 on Sun May 08, 2016 2:55 pm

    yoMuzicMan wrote:I have both the TM112 and TM212 cabinets and am using them with a GM36 head.  I was hoping to use the TM112 all the time but never really dug the sound (too bright).  So I got the TM212 to compare.

    The TM212 sounds warmer than the TM112.  And in my opinion is a better fit for the GM36 over the TM112 because the sound of the TM212 is closer to the Redbox output vs the TM112.  This allows me to create my patches using the Redbox output at home, and then hear a similar sound when using the TM212 at practice or shows.

    My understanding is both cabinets have the V30s in them.  I've opened the back of the TM112 to confirm this, and I see a V30 in it.  But I can't seem to pry the back off the TM212 to confirm the exact same V30s.

    I understand the TM212 will sound fuller because of the larger cabinet, but I don't understand why the TM112 is MUCH brighter than the TM212.

    Is it possible there are different kinds of V30s in each of these cabinets causing the TM112 to sound brighter than the TM212?  As for breaking in the speakers, I've played them about the same amount of time, and they've really never changed much since I've owned them.  The TM212 was warmer from the start, whereas the TM112 was brighter.

    I'd like to get the TM112 to sound less bright like the TM212.  I suppose I could replace the V30 with something else.

    Thoughts or comments?

    Thanks,
    Ron

    I have owned 2 of these great sounding TM212 cabinets and sold them due to their weight. I cannot seem to remember what Ohm each speaker was or whether they are running in series or parallel so could you please tell me what Ohm each speaker is? I am considering picking up another one and pairing a new neo Creamback which weighs in at 6 lbs lighter than the stock V30.

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