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    Adding extra pedals

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    stugotz74

    Posts : 52
    Join date : 2015-04-21

    Adding extra pedals

    Post by stugotz74 on Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:24 pm

    He everyone. I'm thinking of adding strymon timeline and big sky to my GM36. Thoughts as to where they should be plugged in? I'm thinking effects loop.

    Also since these pedals offer midi and this amp and foot switch are midi can they be integrated together to where if I select a GM preset it will also engage the pedals? I've tried searching the web but I can't seem to find out if it's possible. Thanks in advance!
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    gravydb

    Posts : 193
    Join date : 2014-06-22
    Location : PA

    Re: Adding extra pedals

    Post by gravydb on Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:21 am

    I would put them in the fx loop but that's really just out of an old habit of wanting to put things like chorus/reverb/delays after the pre-amp section. In reality there is no right/wrong spot for them. I know plenty of folks who run all effects in the front of the amp and they sound fine.

    I'm not a midi expert so maybe someone else can chime in on that question, but I would be surprised if the pedals can't be controlled by the GM. Another option, you can toggle the GM's fx loop on/off per preset. That would save you some midi cables Smile

    edited to add: doh! yeah I meant the FSM should be able to control it. thanks namklak for clarifying that!


    Last edited by gravydb on Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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    namklak

    Posts : 185
    Join date : 2015-01-30
    Location : Denver, CO

    Re: Adding extra pedals

    Post by namklak on Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:48 am

    I agree with Gravy - no right way, but most put the time-based effects in the amp's Effects Loop.

    The GM itself is not a midi controller (it does not generate or "produce" midi messages), it is just a consumer. The H&K FSM432 is a midi controller/producer, but I've never used it. It may do what you need. Read a link like this
    https://www.noterepeat.com/articles/how-to/213-midi-basics-common-terms-explained
    and study PC and CC messages. Not complicated - after all, midi was made by musicians for musicians. Musicians are generally not engineers, although I know many engineers who are musicians...

    I highly recommend using midi for performance, you can significantly decrease the quantity of "pedal dance" necessary to get thru a gig. I use a HD500X as a midi controller for the GM. The HD does all of my front-side effects and midi control. I select a patch on the HD, and it automagically instantly selects a corresponding patch on the GM. One foot stomp to change from clean chorus rhythm to screaming lead. For your setup you just need a midi controller that does both PC and CC messages...

    Please report back with your adventures...

    stugotz74

    Posts : 52
    Join date : 2015-04-21

    Re: Adding extra pedals

    Post by stugotz74 on Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:48 pm

    hey guys,

    Thanks for the input. I posted the question on H&K facebook page. Hopefully they respond.

    So I'm hoping that if this connects right i can select a patch on GM via foot switch and it will select a preset on the Strymon pedals.

    stugotz74

    Posts : 52
    Join date : 2015-04-21

    Re: Adding extra pedals

    Post by stugotz74 on Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:44 am

    Got a response! although it seems like conflicting info. They replied to one question with this answer:

    Hi Skip, depends on which Strymon pedals you have! But if they’re the MIDI-connectable ones, just go from the MIDI Out of the FSM footswitch into the MIDI in of the Strymon pedal… Normal pedals you can just use as normal! Hope this is useful, but if you’Ve got any more specific questions then just let us know!

    My question was answered like this:

    Hi Tony! Yep, we saw you askewd on FB too, and here’s our answer:
    Strymon pedals have MIDI connections, so they can be controlled by the FSM. You can connect the FSM MIDI out to the GrandMeister MIDI in as usual, then use the MIDI out of the GrandMeister to connect it the MIDI in of the first Strymon Pedal, and the the MIDI out of that to the MIDI in of the second… All devices in the MIDI chain will react if they are all set to the same MIDI channel.

    So the anser: no, not directly to the FSM, but to the GrandMeister! Then you can call up presets on the pedals using the FSM… Hope this helps! And also… we just love the Big Sky, enjoy it!

    I asked for clarity on the answers as it seems one says yes to connecting to the FSM and the other says no.
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    namklak

    Posts : 185
    Join date : 2015-01-30
    Location : Denver, CO

    Re: Adding extra pedals

    Post by namklak on Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:40 pm

    So the FSM is the controller - so its output can then be daisy chained to the other midi devices in any order. Whoops that's wrong - the GM has to be the first device connected to the output of FSM with the special 7pin midi cable supplied with the FSM, because that's how the FSM gets its power.  Then the other devices can be daisy chained to the GM's output in any order.

    I think you are going to want to use the FSM in Preset mode.  Each FSM button will then send out a midi Program Change message - really a number, 1-128.  Consider each of those numbers a "patch".  For each PC number set up the GM and Strymon and etc to do what you want - meaning what tone.  One PC number or patch is Whole Lotta Love rhythm, another is Money For Nothing rhythm, another is Purple Haze lead, etc...  And you have a 128 patches avail.    That's enough for a few bands worth of patches.

    The physical layout of the FCM is four patches per bank (same as my HD500), so each bank could contain four patches for a specific guitar player or song.  So I had a Duane bank and and Warren bank - for for some Jimmy Hall tunes I'd need 3 or 4 tones per song (clean leslie, clean chunch rhythm, dual lead, smokin lead), so then I'd do one bank per song.

    At a high level, by default the FSM sends messages on midi channel 1 and the gm receives messages on midi channel 1.  For the above topology of all daisy chained with "patches", set all devices to receive on midi channel 1.

    Another maybe wrong - I can't find if the FSM broadcasts on midi channnel 1 or does a broadcast all.  I believe the GM defaults to receive on channel 1.  For the above topology, I'd set all devices to channel 1.

    With all devices set to receive on channel 1 and all daisy chained, you can also daisy chain in a windows PC and use the Windows app (elsewhere on this forum) to do Control and also to help configure the Patches on the GM.  POWER!!!

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