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    jcm800 sounds ??

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    coachz

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    jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by coachz on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:23 pm

    Can anyone post some jcm800 sounds like these please?  Some nice chimey fender sounds would be great two.  No metal please.



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    coachz

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by coachz on Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:53 pm

    Since the g40 uses el84 tubes and the jcm use el34 is it even possible to get the same sound?
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    spikey

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by spikey on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:30 pm

    I'm gonna run one of these and it should help me get a Marshall tone thru the GM40...

    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LaGranged1?adpos=1o1&creative=146356081826&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=LaGranged1&gclid=Cj0KEQjwiI3HBRDv0q_qhqXZ-N4BEiQAOTiCHkXk4QMifEUTWdH3HbV4dhOjojsRickQ7I1bVc--UYYaAuMv8P8HAQ
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    coachz

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by coachz on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:32 pm

    If I'm spending $1200 on an amp it better do it on its own.
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    spikey

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by spikey on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:58 pm

    So your saying when you buy that sports car it better be able to go off road and fly as well? Razz

    I'm sure that the GM-40 sounds wonderful (I bought one myself), but that doesn't mean it'll sound like a Marshall Plexi without a little help.
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    coachz

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by coachz on Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:10 am

    spikey wrote:So your saying when you buy that sports car it better be able to go off road and fly as well?  Razz

    I'm sure that the GM-40 sounds wonderful (I bought one myself), but that doesn't mean it'll sound like a Marshall Plexi without a little help.

    A Helix is making more sense to me. It's is a sports car that is able to go off road and fly as well
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    spikey

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by spikey on Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:49 am

    That's why I have a Helix routed into the FX Loop of my GM-40. Best of both worlds.
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    coachz

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by coachz on Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:50 am

    Seems like a waste of money, since the helix already has all the fx and amp models, not to mention adding the complexity of managing presets on two units.
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    aenima

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by aenima on Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:35 pm

    if you like the helix sound, then buy it. for me in my opinion for example the distortion sound in the second video sounds digital. but Ive never been fan of the line6 modeling so far. if you really want the best marshall sound you can get, buy a marshall or one of the many marshall clones. the gm40 can for sure be marshallesque sounding, will be working well for acdc like tone in the crunch channel with enough gain dialed in or in the lead channel as well. its not a modeler so it won't be an exact marshall sound replica, but it has the characteristics like the tight bottom short and hard attack and the pronounced mids.
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    coachz

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by coachz on Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:49 pm

    aenima wrote:if you like the helix sound, then buy it. for me in my opinion for example the distortion sound in the second video sounds digital. but Ive never been fan of the line6 modeling so far. if you really want the best marshall sound you can get, buy a marshall or one of the many marshall clones. the gm40 can for sure be marshallesque sounding, will be working well for acdc like tone in the crunch channel with enough gain dialed in or in the lead channel as well. its not a modeler so it won't be an exact marshall sound replica, but it has the characteristics like the tight bottom short and hard attack and the pronounced mids.

    Thanks for the reply. I'm just watching youtube videos because local music stores don't have much here. I read more about the metal capabilities of the GM40 but wondered how well it can do classic rock. I have not heard any good examples yet and was hoping a GM40 owner could upload something. It looks like an amazing rig.



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    aenima

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by aenima on Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:44 pm

    i get what your're aiming at. maybe one of the users here can upload a sample. maybe i will, but i dont know when i will have time for it, so i cannot promise anything.
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    coachz

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by coachz on Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:32 pm

    No worries. A Les Paul would be ideal if anyone is up for it. To me the best way to sell an amp is to have talented players playing all the tones from strat / tell country chimey sounds to metal I demo videos.
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    aenima

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by aenima on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:05 am

    do you know where to get the song without the guitar track like what the guy used in your first example (back in black)?
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    coachz

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by coachz on Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:05 am

    This would work.  No hyperlinks for 7 days so please assemble the below.

    https://paste.ofcode.org/35mFWt8rpNNYFcqTanDrqdB


    I have a Tonelab LE and I like the sounds in it but it's not perfect.  I spent about 6 hours yesterday dialing in all the Marshall volumes and it was an eye opener.  I found that where I could get chords to sound crunchy with hard strums, doing single line riffs on the low E or A strings were not crunchy and were way too clean.  I think I revealed the difference between a modeler and a real amp with the Tonelab.

    Also, I found there to be a very narrow window where the strummed crunch distortion sounded good.   It's like it was open sounding and almost enough distortion, but as soon as I got on the edge of more saturation by turning up either the gain or master on the many Marshall models then the sound became compressed and sounded bad.

    I have a Marshall DSL15C amp with tubes and it has none of those issues.  I also had a manual that said for the plexi and JTM models that the master gain in the model needed to stay on  full and just to work the pre amp gain know on the tonelab.  Well, those both had bad clipping with that setup so I had to pull back the master gain halfway to get even usable tones.  I see now why some people stick with the real thing.  I'll keep trying things but it sure is a lot harder than I thought to get a good tone.  

    My guitar is an Agile 3100 Les Paul with Seymour Duncan Jazz and JB pickups and it is wired for 50's wiring and is completely shielded so it's a great guitar to test with.  Plays like butter.  Isn't the search for tone fun.  

    I did have fun by assigning the pedal to the chorus modulation depth and playing arpeggios and moving it in and out from very dry to very lush.   Really perks up the ears.

    Have a great day !  Get your sound !
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    bordonbert

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by bordonbert on Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:39 pm

    Coachz wrote:Thanks for the reply. I'm just watching youtube videos because local music stores don't have much here. I read more about the metal capabilities of the GM40 but wondered how well it can do classic rock. I have not heard any good examples yet and was hoping a GM40 owner could upload something. It looks like an amazing rig.
    I have to say that this has been my criticism of the H&K line all along. While the GM40 has updating over the GM36 which I have, it still isn't set up to do Classic Rock to my ears. It's a high gain metal machine in spades, as well as being an immaculately controllable beast too of course. For me, with REAL old time classic rock at the heart of what I play, I actually did what the guys are advising. I went back to Marshall and got myself the sound I wanted directly. I still love my GM36 for home use and I'm still a strong advocate in the right environment, but it just can't do Classic Rock like Marshalls can for me.
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    coachz

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by coachz on Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:03 pm

    I read some reviews for other brand power tubes of the same model and some said they were setup for classic rock. Maybe someone with access to these might report back.
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    spikey

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by spikey on Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:33 pm

    coachz wrote:Seems like a waste of money, since the helix already has all the fx and amp models, not to mention adding the complexity of managing presets on two units.


    It's only a waste if I used "your" money. For me and my money, it was very "very" well spent. And with that Bogner pedal listed above, it does a Marshall Plexi pretty well too! See I don't do metal and was skeptical about how this would sound esp. with Helix in the loop. It worked like a charm. With Helix added I can use my choice of a wah, compression, EQ where needed, up to 4 FX loops, etc etc... YMMV but I'm as Happy as can be with my set up, the best blues rock and rock&roll tones I've heard in a while. And since I running into Helix 1st I can use the foot controller for both, I can just change patches and be right back into using Helix for the Fenders and AC-30s. Best of both worlds for me! Oh, and if yer still worried my finances just send me some EB 9-42 Slinkys and a few guitar pics  cheers
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    MyPetOctopus

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by MyPetOctopus on Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:15 pm

    OP, are you in an AC/DC tribute band? Do you play out? If so, what all are you looking to cover? A JCM 800 sounds awesome, maybe just buy one of those instead? Hate seeing anyone drop serious coin to be let down. Anyways...if you're looking to model one sound, just get what the original artist had. If you want that sound, plus others, the waters get muddied a bit. You mentioned wanting Fender chime with crunchy leads, closest I've gotten is with the Egnater Renegade head with tube blending. Covers a lot of ground, adjustable from 18w to 65w if memory serves me correctly. Anyways...whether it be tube amp, modeler or whatever...buy what YOU like and what sounds good to YOU. I've never had another musician stop me mid song to discuss tone, regardless of amp, effects, etc. The only person willing to do that is too chicken shit to stand up there and play it himself. Just my 2 cents.
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    coachz

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by coachz on Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:00 am

    spikey wrote:
    coachz wrote:Seems like a waste of money, since the helix already has all the fx and amp models, not to mention adding the complexity of managing presets on two units.


    It's only a waste if I used "your" money. For me and my money, it was very "very" well spent. And with that Bogner pedal listed above, it does a Marshall Plexi pretty well too! See I don't do metal and was skeptical about how this would sound esp. with Helix in the loop. It worked like a charm. With Helix added I can use my choice of a wah, compression, EQ where needed, up to 4 FX loops, etc etc... YMMV but I'm as Happy as can be with my set up, the best blues rock and rock&roll tones I've heard in a while. And since I running into Helix 1st I can use the foot controller for both, I can just change patches and be right back into using Helix for the Fenders and AC-30s. Best of both worlds for me! Oh, and if yer still worried my finances just send me some EB 9-42 Slinkys and a few guitar pics  cheers

    ha ha.  Do you use patches on both the helix and the GM40 ?    Do you play live because I"m wondering how you manage the presets.  Do you have both the footswitch to the GM40 too ?    Thanks for any ideas.   It just seemed redundant so I appreciate the explanation.   You might like to try the EB cobalts too if you have not.  My hero Steve Vai is a fan.  
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    coachz

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by coachz on Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:21 am

    MyPetOctopus wrote:OP, are you in an AC/DC tribute band?  Do you play out? If so, what all are you looking to cover?  A JCM 800 sounds awesome, maybe just buy one of those instead? Hate seeing anyone drop serious coin to be let down. Anyways...if you're looking to model one sound, just get what the original artist had. If you want that sound, plus others, the waters get muddied a bit. You mentioned wanting Fender chime with crunchy leads, closest I've gotten is with the Egnater Renegade head with tube blending. Covers a lot of ground, adjustable from 18w to 65w if memory serves me correctly. Anyways...whether it be tube amp, modeler or whatever...buy what YOU like and what sounds good to YOU. I've never had another musician stop me mid song to discuss tone, regardless of amp, effects, etc. The only person willing to do that is too chicken shit to stand up there and play it himself. Just my 2 cents.

    Thanks for the reply.   The rig I'm trying to put together is for playing out.  Ideally it will be a nice head on a 4x12 cabinet and have a  lot of different classic rock 80's tones available by a nice footswitch that has the preset names in the footswitch.   Preset "Chorus3" means a lot more to me than "B24".   Tone is ellusive and when you hear it you know it.  Putting many tones into a functional rig to play out seems not so easy.  The Egnator Renegade sounds great but it reminds of the Marshalls that just have a couple of great usable tones and if I add my Tonelab LE pedalboard or a Helix then I"m jumping between the amp footswitch and the pedalboard footswitches.

    I can't imagine an empty stage with just a pedalboard on the floor.  To me that doesn't look very rock and roll.   I need the head and 4x12 for the look and punch of the cabinet.
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    bordonbert

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by bordonbert on Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:27 am

    Coachz wrote:I read some reviews for other brand power tubes of the same model and some said they were setup for classic rock. Maybe someone with access to these might report back.
    Oh dear, please no no no no no!  This keeps coming up for discussion here (read "argument") and the answer is always the same.  The new boys who are coming to the H&Ks from the realms of the Dark Lords of Mojo insist this is the case, and those who have used the amps for a long time insist it is just not so.  And the former always end up being listened to.

    You should read a few posts in the Tube Swapping Thread here:  H&K Forum Thread

    Start at Post No 122 by VoodooJeff and read through his later posts for a page or so.  VoodooJeff is a professional guitarist who uses GM36s in his work.  He has day to day hands on experience of the GM36 in all environments and has been incredibly helpful in his advice to this forum in the past.  His advice is always objective, he needs to be to get the genuine best out of his gear.  He is talking about using a set of Wathen super valves which he had the opportunity to get cheap - which is just as well!  The Wathen Cryogen 12AX7 is currently $91 and the EL84 is $124 - and that's "each"!

    His verdict?  The effect of valve changes in general is "subtle at best" (his words), even for these Rockafellers.  Yes, there is a difference in the sounds of some valves but it is absolutely minimal in the real sense of gigging and it is dwarfed in the difference your speaker choice will make.  Talk like, "the Rothschild 12AX7-Pro-Selected has a more open almost breathy top end with a more powerful bass, yet a slightly recessed lower mid which gives your music an intrinsically ethereal quality" is total hype written by those who have to justify selling you an alternative.  The only answer is not to say "but I can easily hear the difference", it's "put them on the bench and measure them, any difference will be obvious in the results of objective measurements".  For those who genuinely believe there is still a mojo quality in their amps that can't be measured with today's professional test equipment, there are credit cards waiting to swallow up your money everywhere. Very Happy

    In my case I always recommend that people go to a better set of valves but there is no need to go further than anything standard and decent like JJs.  They do the job for most of the people who have discussed this at real length over the last couple of years.  And that covers many genre of music and tastes.

    Just a thought here.  Has it ever occurred to anyone that the criticism of Chinese valves is always as being harsh and unmusical.  "Everyone" knows they are cheap and sound bad.  If it was just a case of hearing a difference between valves and choosing which you preferred objectively then where are the people who would statistically prefer the sound of the Chinese over the others?  For some genres of music they must exist but there is never anyone vocal who takes that line.  That points us to the conclusion that the ability to hear differences and to confirm that the prevailing industry attitudes on this sort of issue are correct is more a "wanna be one of the guitar gurus" thing than a "but I genuinely prefer them" thing.  If it were objective there would be a part of the population who prefer the cheapies!  And does anyone know how many major name valves start their lives in a Russian factory?  You may be surprised!

    (And I'm with MyPetOctopus too as long as it means based on truth and not just the choice to blank agree with the industry! Wink )


    EDIT: "I've never had another musician stop me mid song to discuss tone, regardless of amp, effects, etc. The only person willing to do that is too chicken shit to stand up there and play it himself. Just my 2 cents." - 'Aint that just the truth! And I would add that the general audience member doesn't give a rat's rear end about your tone, they just come to hear what you play in the overall general sense and love it. They wouldn't hear the difference if you played it on a penny whistle as long as they can sing along and jump and hoot! Laughing
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    bordonbert

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by bordonbert on Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:48 am

    The use of the FSM432 has been discussed here too of course and historically most people tend to use it on a song by song basis. They generally set one bank of 4 voices for each song which may require a number of patches during its time. The fact that patches can be left unused in a bank is not a problem with 128 to choose from and for songs which use only a couple they can easily share a bank. It is easy to remember which of the 4 available patches you use for a particular passage. Then a list of which bank is for which song is not difficult to work from, most people don't have a problem with a gig running order of tracks so why not a list of track patches? You nearly always find that many songs are fairly generic and can be run from the same bank. in truth there is rarely a need to use more than a half dozen banks.

    Coachz, I was with you until you wrote: "I can't imagine an empty stage with just a pedalboard on the floor. To me that doesn't look very rock and roll." Crying or Very sad Anything that worries about looking rock and roll isn't rock and roll in the classic sense, it smells a bit of big hair gel, spandex, bare chests and artificial erections! Laughing Just watch some Japanese rock to see, good musicians but kind of "doing rock by numbers". Smile
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    coachz

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by coachz on Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:49 am

    Great replies. The only audience member I am interested in is the one who does care about my tone.

    In the last two months I have seen Al Dimeola and Steve Vai from the 4th row and the tones where wonderful. If they were not, I would have been very disappointed. I hope to deliver something someday that makes someone feel the same way they make me feel when I see them. Skill is of course another issue. :-)
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    coachz

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by coachz on Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:54 am

    bordonbert wrote:The use of the FSM432 has been discussed here too of course and historically most people tend to use it on a song by song basis.  They generally set one bank of 4 voices for each song which may require a number of patches during its time.  The fact that patches can be left unused in a bank is not a problem with 128 to choose from and for songs which use only a couple they can easily share a bank.  It is easy to remember which of the 4 available patches you use for a particular passage.  Then a list of which bank is for which song is not difficult to work from, most people don't have a problem with a gig running order of tracks so why not a list of track patches?  You nearly always find that many songs are fairly generic and can be run from the same bank.  in truth there is rarely a need to use more than a half dozen banks.

    Coachz, I was with you until you wrote: "I can't imagine an empty stage with just a pedalboard on the floor.  To me that doesn't look very rock and roll." Crying or Very sad  Anything that worries about looking rock and roll isn't rock and roll in the classic sense, it smells a bit of big hair gel, spandex, bare chests and artificial erections! Laughing Just watch some Japanese rock to see, good musicians but kind of "doing rock by numbers". Smile

    The footswitch would work ok for live, I just prefer patch names instead of numbers. When track order changes, it's always fun re-ordering the patches in the unit.

    This is what I expect to see when I go to a rock and roll show. AMPS !
    h t t p s : / / youtu.be/Rbpd_9hNn3w?t=2159
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    bordonbert

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    Re: jcm800 sounds ??

    Post by bordonbert on Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:56 am

    Are you saying that, if Steve Vai was playing a no-name Strat direct through a no-name amp and cab you would not like his sound? For me, at the end of the day the guitarists I love sound incredible no matter what their setup is when I hear them. It may be slightly different to what I am used to but that is of no consequence. Yes, they would choose great gear and make sure to get the sound they want in general, but that doesn't mean I am not thrilled at what I hear when I see them with run of the mill kit. I've seen someone I suspect you may like, Guthrie Govan, get up and jam in a local pub with borrowed gear and he is still amazing, with the ability to coax astounding tone out of that unfamiliar gear. That's a great guitarist with the tone in his fingers.

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