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    Red Box Output Levels into Recorder

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    Ric

    Posts : 4
    Join date : 2015-04-15

    Red Box Output Levels into Recorder

    Post by Ric on Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:44 pm

    Hi , just new here , got my grandmeister 36 and 112 this week . I play mostly at home into a Roland Ocatacapture to a Sonar. I set a few nice tones at 1W. The volume going into the OC is far too high , peaking red , seems the only answer is to turn down the master volume , but I don't think this sounds as good?
    Do you think I should mainly use the 5W or 18W settings with lower master volume? But will this be too loud for the house?

    What do other set ups tend to do?

    Ric
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    gravydb

    Posts : 193
    Join date : 2014-06-22
    Location : PA

    Re: Red Box Output Levels into Recorder

    Post by gravydb on Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:02 pm

    I've been down this road. The Red Box out is LINE LEVEL and is too hot for a typical mic/instrument input. I'm not familiar with your Roland interface but see if it has Line Level inputs... if so, that's what you want to use. If your interface/mixer/whatever does not accommodate a Line Level signal, then you need to attenuate the signal (I use a -40dB in-line attenuator between my amp and recording interface). Some DI's have a built-in pad, that would work too. Good luck.
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    Ric

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    Join date : 2015-04-15

    Re: Red Box Output Levels into Recorder

    Post by Ric on Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:44 pm

    Hi Gravydb, thanks for the reply , The Roland Oc has a multiple input jack that takes XLR , TRS and phono 1/4 inch , I changed the lead I was using from an XLR to 1/4 jack and bingo , it must have changed something to line level input and it worked fine.. changed the lead back to double check and it's correct , thanks
    Ric
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    mm408

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    Join date : 2015-04-12

    Re: Red Box Output Levels into Recorder

    Post by mm408 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:26 pm

    Indeed, the Master volume makes NO diff in the output level of the Redbox. only volume and gain controls do. The Redbox will definitely overdrive an XLR input for microphone. same thing happened to me. line level is the deal! you can also just run the output from the line out connector on the back of the amp, using a guitar cable, into an interface and it will work fine,as long as it accepts line level.

    jsims234

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    Join date : 2015-04-02

    Re: Red Box Output Levels into Recorder

    Post by jsims234 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:14 pm

    Just wanted to add a tip I received from H&K in a response to a comment I made on their blog.  I had asked about effects in the preamp out.  Here was their response:

    Hi John, and thanks for your question – and no problem about asking twice: so long as we don’t give you two different answers we’ll be OK Wink

    The simple answer to your question is Yes, but the Line Out only sends the signal from the preamp, so you won’t get that sweet power amp situation. [I believe they meant "saturation"]

    Here, just for you, is an unofficial tip from an experienced recording engineer on how to get an unfiltered power amp signal: set the Power Soak to 1 Watt and connect the Speaker Out to the Line In of your mixer: 1 Watt is line level. But take care, if you switch to 36 watts by accident, your mixing desk won’t like that at all Wink
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    bish0p34

    Posts : 61
    Join date : 2015-03-21
    Location : Kingston, Pa.

    Re: Red Box Output Levels into Recorder

    Post by bish0p34 on Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:52 pm

    Ric, if you're using the Red Box out, the only wattage settings that are supposed to impact that are 18 and 36...when you're using it as a DI live with a cabinet plugged in. I haven't played around with this much, so I won't say for sure.

    Sorry to contradict mm408, but the master volume know absolutely make a difference in the volume of mine when I'm using the Red Box to send into a Presonus interface. It's a hot signal, and my input on the Presonus is about 9-10 o'clock max. I'm not familiar with the Roland you mentioned. It should have an input level control?

    And at one watt, my Meister is still loud enough to jam with a quiet band. For home? I don't use mine at home. Too loud for an apartment.
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    mm408

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    Join date : 2015-04-12

    Re: Red Box Output Levels into Recorder

    Post by mm408 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:42 am

    Bishop, maybe that is because I am using 18 watts with the line out (which is only preamp) so No power amp... Master does not make a diff then. at least it is not noticeable to me.

    I will try both tonight to see if that is right, it would be good to know.
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    mm408

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    Re: Red Box Output Levels into Recorder

    Post by mm408 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:41 am

    I got to thinking as I was driving into work after I made the post above and a couple of things occurred to me that I saw in the manual. I checked it out once I got to work and this is the gist of it. Some basics to remember
    Master controls power amp volume level
    Red Box converts the power amp signal, tapped post power amp and pre-power soak
    The Master (and power soak above 18 watt setting) affect the signal level
    18 watts and below do not change level so that you do not have to change the Master levels at home or rehearsing or recording
    line out connection outputs the preamp signal only
    So, with these things in mind I think I can see why our experiences may have been different. it makes a difference if you are using Redbox vs Line out. It also explains why the master did nothing for me as I was tapping the pre-amp signal before it got to the Power amp !
    What do you think?n I still think I will do some testing, at least on the line out connection to verify. Then I think I will get an XLR adaptor so I can use the RedBox out into the Mackie board using a 1/4 inch jack on the board side. Then I can compare and contrast.

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    gravydb

    Posts : 193
    Join date : 2014-06-22
    Location : PA

    Re: Red Box Output Levels into Recorder

    Post by gravydb on Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:57 am

    When I had my TM18 head, for band rehearsals (no cabinet, we'd all go direct, for volume control), I'd run a xlr cable from the redbox to the Mackie board, with a 1/4" adapter so that I could plug into the LINE input of the channel. It worked great. I have to admit though, at first I didn't understand the line level stuff and so I initially was connecting to the board's XLR input and wondering why it sounded so bad (very harsh, brittle, too hot). Live and learn Smile
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    mm408

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    Join date : 2015-04-12

    Re: Red Box Output Levels into Recorder

    Post by mm408 on Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:37 am

    yep sounds right, I need to get one of those cables so I can do it either way
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    bish0p34

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    Join date : 2015-03-21
    Location : Kingston, Pa.

    Re: Red Box Output Levels into Recorder

    Post by bish0p34 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:00 pm

    mm408 what you said makes perfect sense. From my experience I find you want the DI after the power amp for a better tone. I'm not crazy about the preamp out, unless it's into another power amp.
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    mm408

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    Re: Red Box Output Levels into Recorder

    Post by mm408 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:03 pm

    yep,, I agree with the power amp comment too, I was just restricted by cable, board capabilities. I will fix that though! good investigations guys! ha

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