Replacing FSM432 Midi Pedal with Soleman

Hi. Long time lurker, first time poster. Many thanks to everyone for the great info on this site. It has helped my journey with the Grandmeister a lot.

I am hoping to find someone that has done what I'm about to try to do. I need to replace my FSM432 with a Soleman midi controller. I don't know much about midi, but I believe that it can be done if I can figure out how to get all the CC code profiles that I have set up on my FSM presets transferred to the Soleman.

I've got the Soleman desktop software set up and I've read the manual a bunch of times, but there's not much online about moving away from the FSM432. I'm not even sure if the Soleman can handle the bidirectional signal off the amp (I'm using the WMI-1 Wifi lead from H&K, so it's bidirectional instead of separate in/out midi leads). I'm hoping I don't have to literally code each CC value for each preset; there must be a way to drop all the values for a preset in one shot, and I assume the same will hold true if I change the presets in the H&K app and need to update off the pedal.

Anyway, I'm probably getting to specific. If anyone has done this type of transition generally and can help with basic guidance, I would very much appreciate it.

Thank you.

I can't help with any specific info on your Soleman, I don't use midi controllers other than the FSM432.  There are other much more experienced users of MIDI than I am and I'm sure they will step in if I get this wrong in any way, but, in principle...

I think this may be simpler than you think.  The voice settings in the H&K setup are NOT carried in the FSM432, that is simply a dumb controller which does one simple job and holds no data at all.  If the voice settings were carried in the footswitch then you would not have access to them when using the amp manually and it would mean there were two versions which could get out of step.  The FSM432 simply does one of two things.  It sends a MIDI Program change message to the amp saying nothing more than "select preset number 35 from your voice list".  It does not send the complete voice setup needed to change every aspect to suit.  The amp then looks that up in its own internal database and sets each of its parameters to match what it finds in entry 35.  Or the footswitch sends MIDI Control changes like "switch to Crunch channel by setting channel 31 to value 26" or "change the Treble setting on Control 23 to value 108".

All you need to do here is leave the voice settings in the amp and get the Soleman to send out the correct signal on the correct line to tell the amp the number of the voice it is to load up.  That way your voices are still available to you.  Or you need to set up the Soleman to send out the correct Control messages to change the specific aspect you want to in the amp.  For example, turning the Boost On or Off is done by sending a control 64 message of above or below value 128.  (I think it's 128 which is half of 256.  It may be <64> if there are only 128 steps in the value range.  I do remember there are a couple which share slots and which have more restricted ranges but that is a minor detail.)  There is no need for any info to go from the GM36 back to the Soleman.  Any changes made manually at the amp stay with the amp, they don't affect the messages the Soleman will send to it in the future.  If you set the Boost on at the Soleman the amp setup changes to reflect that.  If you switch it off manually at the amp the Soleman stays disinterestedly reading its magazine and supping its beer.  The next time the Soleman tells the amp to switch the Boost on it is just already in that state.  And of course the Soleman is available to switch it off at any time.

Do you know your Soleman well enough to know if it can do that?

Thank you for this. It's a really helpful way to look at it and definitely helps me rethink a couple of things I was trying to figure out.

This line in your message seems to be the key for me. " It sends a MIDI Program change message to the amp saying nothing more than "select preset number 35 from your voice list"."

Does this mean that I would just program the Soleman to send a "PC" message instead of a bunch of CC messages? I always thought that the head and the FSM432 only worked off of CC messages, which is why I thought the opposite of what you wrote here: "It does not send the complete voice setup needed to change every aspect to suit." It's certainly a lot easier to manage the way you describe it.

If the answer is just:
- program single PC messages for each of the 64 voice presets; and
- program individual CC messages if you just want to tweak one thing (like kick on the boost or change the channel or turn on the FX Loop),
then that's great.

My only question would be what's the PC coding convention for the presets?

Hopefully I'm understanding your lead correctly and thinking about it in a way that's getting closer. Thank you for your help and time on this!!!

Thanks so much again for the information. I got it going now, without much trouble based largely on you putting me in the right direction. I really appreciate it. Now off to find a faulty midi cable that was making things even more confusing for me! Thanks again!!!!!

Glad it helped. My own experience is that this is one of the most vague areas of using the H&K amps. In my case I am an electronics engineer but I had never played with MIDI control stuff before. It's a steep learning curve!

If the answer is just:
- program single PC messages for each of the 64 voice presets; and
- program individual CC messages if you just want to tweak one thing (like kick on the boost or change the channel or turn on the FX Loop),
then that's great.

My only question would be what's the PC coding convention for the presets?

You got it in one! I think the coding convention you are looking for is specific to your Soleman. You don't need to understand what is being sent, only how to set up the hardware to send it. You should be able to find out from the manual how to set up your switches to send the right data. The only thing then is to make sure you have the same comms channel being used by the amp and controller which you seem to have.

In the meantime I'll have a scan over the Soleman manual to see if I can understand it. If I can then I reckon you'll make it look easy. We're here if you need us.

The Soleman manual is an interesting read if you skim.  Here is a bit which I think may be what we need to consider.

Soleman Manual Pg 8 wrote:Scene Mode
In Scene Mode, the Soleman steps through programs in sequential order and outputs Program Change messages, Note On messages, or Macros. Program Change messages are enabled by default. This is the simplest mode of operation and matches the functionality of most simple MIDI footswitches.

Scenes are basically a way of storing preset information for multiple effects pedals in the same system, with the benefit of being able to save and recall those presets all at the same time with a single program change message.  [AB: That would be what is usually called a Preset or Voice for the GM36]

There are a total of 128 Scenes available in the Soleman, [AB: Same as the FSM432] and each has a corresponding MIDI message that is sent from the MIDI outputs (hardware and USB) when the Scene is activated. By default, each Scene will output a MIDI Program Change message. The number of the Program Change message corresponds to the Scene number. For example, when Scene 5 is activated, a Program Change message with a program number of 5 will be sent from the MIDI outputs.

That seems to be what you want to just control the selection of presets on your amp.  List Mode seems to be also useful and with its ability to rearrange your presets so they are more convenient to send out from so few switches.  Panel Mode is, as they say, the most powerful but the most complex.  That seems to have the ability to send out CC messages to alter individual controls.  I haven't digested that yet, you would know much more about that approach then me and I hope you have it under control by now.

I have to say , I can't really see why you are going for the Soleman over the FSM432.  The way the FSM offers up its preset selections to use live seems to be much better to me, (though, as I said, I haven't used the Soleman of course).  With the presets selected from banks of four you have the opportunity to set up up to 4 voices in a bank which represent what is needed for a particular song, (or a number of songs in my own simple case).  Selecting that bank at the beginning of a number gives you instant one stomp access to any of those 4 voices.  You can access other banks on the fly of course but usually 4 voices is more than enough for a song.  With the MIDI Thru facility you can also set any other MIDI devices you use to be programmed by the same Program Change messages to match what they should be doing.

Here is a common stumbling block.  Most people start by defining their voices all over the place and have to tap dance between banks to get to them.  They then think the FSM432 is clumsy in its approach.  Remember, there is nothing stopping you from creating duplicate copies of voices in a different bank if a different song requires a new combination of already defined voices and swapping between their original banks would be awkward.  With 128 voices arranged in 32 banks of 4 it has always been easily doable for me.

And don't forget, there is also the possibility of using Stompbox mode to just choose Channels, (channel control settings are remembered between selections for each channel when you select them directly like this).  You also have control over the Mod Effects, Delay and Boost on separate switches.  There is also the possibility of adding two additional switches/swell pedals which can be programmed to control other aspects.  I do wonder if these could be set up to give the correct messages for a couple of features on another independent MIDI device using the Thru connection too.

But my needs are simple of course, you may have a very good reason for really needing to swap to the Soleman.

Thanks, Bordenbert. Yes, I have it figured out well now. Coding PC, CC and using the different options of the Soleman, with preference on the Panel Mode. Reasons for the Soleman for me were size. It fits perfectly on a pedal board that I use and is half the size of the 432, seamless integration with some SourceAudio pedals I use and strength of the PC editor, which has borne out as I've been figuring this out. I think they're both great midi pedals, with the 432 being more robust for sure, but the Soleman fits what I'm trying to do at the moment. Thanks again for all your help; you put me exactly in the right direction where I was previously on a certain wild goose chase.