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    Redbox Out Levels

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    yoMuzicMan

    Posts : 45
    Join date : 2014-05-11
    Location : Colorado

    Redbox Out Levels

    Post by yoMuzicMan on Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:46 am

    As I understand the owner's manual of the GM36, the Redbox output level should stay consistent between speaker off and 18 watts.  However, I'm not observing that when recording into my DAW.  

    I'm either misunderstanding this topic, or H&K has this documented wrong, or I have a defective head.

    Can anyone test this and let me know your findings?

    Here is a screenshot of the waveforms with labels above them showing the configuration of the amp.  I'm using the same patch with the master always at 12 o'clock.  Silent recording provides the loudest signal while 18w provides the quietest signal.  

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    trb

    Posts : 61
    Join date : 2014-07-26
    Age : 51
    Location : France

    Re: Redbox Out Levels

    Post by trb on Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:43 pm

    that's weird... didn't check in details as I always keep the 36w to use the Redbox.
    Is there a difference in tone with your tests ? or just the levels ?
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    yoMuzicMan

    Posts : 45
    Join date : 2014-05-11
    Location : Colorado

    Re: Redbox Out Levels

    Post by yoMuzicMan on Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:28 am

    Just the levels are different, but what I'm observing doesn't follow what the owner's manual says it will do. To summarize, here are the levels I observe from the Redbox output:

    Speaker off: loudest
    1 watt: quieter
    5 watts: even quieter
    18 watts: most quiet
    36 watts: loud again (can't really tell if it's back to 1 watt or speaker off level)

    As I understand it, the output level of the Redbox should only have 2 levels.

    Speaker off, 1 watt, 5 watts, and 18 watts should be at a quieter level.
    36 watts should be at a louder level.

    The tone seems the same I guess, but at different volume levels, it's hard to say for sure.

    To test I simply did this:

    1 - dialed in crunch patch
    2 - adjusted master to 12 o'clock
    3 - disconnected cabinet to put amp in speaker off mode and recorded guitar
    4 - connected cabinet and engaged speaker off mode and recorded guitar
    5 - selected 1 watt mode and recorded guitar
    6 - selected 5 watt mode and recorded guitar
    7 - selected 18 watt mode and recorded guitar
    8 - selected 36 watt mode and recorded guitar

    Between steps 3 and 8 I didn't adjust any knobs on the amp.

    I really hope someone can test the same thing using their recording software to confirm their findings.

    Thanks,
    Ron

    trb

    Posts : 61
    Join date : 2014-07-26
    Age : 51
    Location : France

    Re: Redbox Out Levels

    Post by trb on Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:04 am

    to be exactly right in the test, it must be done with a looper to capture the guitare riff and play it with the four red box position.
    don't have such pedal.

    In my usages I have used speaker off, or 36W and between these 2 cases  I agree: it seems to be the same level.
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    yoMuzicMan

    Posts : 45
    Join date : 2014-05-11
    Location : Colorado

    Re: Redbox Out Levels

    Post by yoMuzicMan on Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:52 am

    I understand and agree about using a looper to record the same input signal, but what I'm observing is so obvious, you don't need one to hear the difference in levels. It sounds as if the redbox output is stepping down with the power output going to the speaker, rather than staying at the same level.
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    yoMuzicMan

    Posts : 45
    Join date : 2014-05-11
    Location : Colorado

    Re: Redbox Out Levels

    Post by yoMuzicMan on Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:21 am

    Just heard back from H&K on Facebook.  Here is their reply which indicates there is nothing wrong with my amp, but the Redbox levels do change between watt settings of the amp.

    "Hi Ron. OK, the engineers have spoken. You’re right! There will always be a difference in levels, even though it shouldn't be really audible. We’re guessing that the actual audible effect is less dramatic than the non-linear display in the pic suggests.

    But yes, we actually integrated a level corrector into the amp to combat this issue (and it is a known issue!). Between OFF and 5W, the difference is negligible. When you go up to 18 Watts, the amp reacts differently to the speaker impedance, which is what causes the disparity. If you were to use different cabs with different impedances, the difference could be even greater. With a 10 ohm cab, the differences are at their smallest, and with a 4 ohm cab they’re at their greatest.

    In short, though, this happens with every amp, and there’s nothing wrong with yours at all.

    Hope that helps!"

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