Lots of questions, channels, presets, etc.

Hi,

After getting absolutely nowhere with the "official" support from Hughes and Kettner, I'm glad to have found this forum.

I hope someone has a spare 10 minutes  

I've just purchased the GM40 and have a couple of queries which were not clear in the manual.  I have numbered them below to hopefully avoid any confusion.

For context, I only use a Ditto Looper in the FX Loop, no other pedals, apart from the FSM-432 MK III.

1.  Should there be any difference between Channels 1-4 (in stompbox mode) and presets 1-4 in bank 1 (in preset mode)?  Or are they effectively the same 4 "channels"?

2.  Another way of putting it, if you didn't have the FSM-432, do the 4 basic channels contain any effects, out of the box?  If so, what are they generally?

3.  When setting the Power Soak to be global (holding Store + FX Access together) does it matter if the amp is in Standby or Play? If so, what difference does it make?

4.  When setting the power soak to be global, does it matter what the current Power Soak setting is?

5.  Once the Power Soak has set to be "global", if I change the Power Soak on the back of the amp, and turn it off, when I switch back on, should it come back on the last selected Power Soak setting, or the one it was on when it was stored.

I want it to be set to 5W every time I switch the amp on.

6.  When the amp is switched on, should the light on the back of the amp for the corresponding/stored Power Soak button be illuminated?

7.  Should it change depending if I'm in Standby or Play mode?

8.  The manual (v1.2, page 8, 5.2) talks about being able to set the Resonance/Presence globally, by pressing Store + FX Access together.  It specifically says the FX Access light will flash when it's on, however mine doesn't, it's either on or off.

This looks like I'm actually setting the global EQ mode - are they basically the same?  And should the FX Access light actually flash or not?

9.  Is there a way to make the FX Loop "on" globally, regardless of preset?

10.  Is the status of the FX Loop included in a preset when storing all the other settings?

If I switch the FX Loop on and use the FSM-432 MKIII in Stompbox mode, I can change channel (1-4) fine and the FX Loop remains active.

However, If I switch to preset mode, and change preset, the FX Loop turns off.

I want to keep the FX Loop enabled while I experiment with all the presets on offer.

11.  The only other option I can think of is to go through each preset, and enable the FX Loop, then re-save each preset?

12.  Does the FX Loop come *before* the amps own effects?  If so, why was it designed that way?

13.  If I record a loop on the Clean channel, then switch to the Lead channel to play over the loop, this works ok.  However, if I tweak the Lead channel and add some delay, will this delay also be applied to my loop, even though the loop *is* still from the clean channel?  I guess the separation of "channel" and effects is a bit confusing, ie, what happens when, in the signal chain, some detail on this would be great, including some examples, especially for my use case.

14.  I guess instead of enabling the FX-Loop on every preset, and re-saving it, I could add an additional footswitch to the FSM-432 to enable/disabled the FX-Loop (Controller number 55).

15.  Having seen the list of controller numbers available, I also see that Channel (1-4), ie 31 is also available, which could be changed by an additional footswitch, I'm a bit lost here... How would you select the clean channel before applying effects, and then saving it as a preset?  Is this possible with the FSM-432 alone, or would you need to manually select the channel on the amp itself (if you don't have an additional footswitch to control the channel)?

16.  For my typical setup, of recording a loop, then playing over the top with a different sound, would I be right in thinking I should only focus on the "channels", rather than presets, and not really use any effects, since the effects will be applied to my original loop, in addition to what I play over the top?

Thanks in advance.

Hi Robsco, well done for knowing what you want to hear and going out for it.  Your needs are pretty much clear and there must be guys who will be able to answer them definitively.  I must be honest, I am only a GM36 user so there may be some refinements that I am unaware of but the two are pretty much the same so I will answer most of your questions definitely and a few from what I have learned here.  I just hope I can keep a clear head with so many things to think about.      

1. As I recall the first 4 presets are not the same as the 4 stompbox channel settings.  In stompbox mode you can alter the basic amp functions manually and these stay with their associated channel as you select between those 4.  Remember that H&K tell you: "The Tap function is unavailable in Stompbox mode, and effects settings apply to all four channels." When you manually select each of the channels from then on the different settings associated with that channel at last use will automatically be set up.  As I recall these are in no way connected to the first 4 presets in the memory.  Changing the local channel settings does not alter presets 1-4 without your "Storing" them there first.

2. I only have my GM36 to test this and at the moment the FSM432 is out on loan.  I have just checked that the effects are actually applied globally to all channels not specific to each channel and they are then reapplied at switch on.  That is correct. In other words it remembers the last effects settings when the amp was switched off.  The GM40D may vary of course but in this I'm fairly sure it won't.  Can anyone else confirm this point?

3. As far as I am aware, (remember it's not an option on the GM36), it makes no difference whether you are in Standby or Play mode when you choose your Global Power Soak setting.

4. I think it is as simple as, when you select Global for the PSk the current setting is the one which will be adopted globally until you select another.  When you select another setting on the back, the PSk level should change globally and stay constant until you repeat with a different selection.

5. My own amp just ran up at 5W when I checked some of your queries.  That isn't a default setting as far as I am aware. I can't really answer that one definitively for a GM40D but I would have thought it would be the same.  Set it to 5W and leave it set on Global and it should stay there even through a switch off then on unless you select a preset with a different level programmed in. Can anyone else confirm this point?

6. Yes, the PSk light should be illuminated at switch on to show you its current level.  The LEDs are an integral part of the relay control circuitry and not the rear panel selector switching system for the PSk.  Those switches act through the logic circuitry too so they can be overridden by the processor controller. You can't have any level selected without the lights reflecting the that level correctly.  That means that if there are no lights on when you switch on then the PSk is at 40W level.  I think that should make it easy for you to test these last couple of points.  Just select, switch off, wait a few seconds then switch back on again and see.

7. No, it should make no difference whether you are in Standby or Play.

8. No, you are reading the manual incorrectly, it states that the "Store" light will flash to indicate you are in selection mode for the Global settings. The GM40D manual says:

"If you press the Store and FX Access buttons simultaneously for more than three seconds when the amp is in Standby mode (the Play/Standby switch is set to Standby), the Store button will start flashing. The following LEDs and buttons on the amp will then serve special programming purposes:
• FX Access: This indicates the status of Global Power Soak mode. The button lights up when Global Power Soak mode is active. To deactivate it, press the FX Access button again.
• Noise Gate: This indicates the status of Global EQ mode. The button lights up when Global EQ mode is active. To deactivate it, press the Noise Gate button again."

The Fx Access light will then indicate your current Global Power Soak setting and you can toggle that with that switch.  That is why yours is showing steady on or off.  The Noise Gate light will indicate your Global Eq setting in the same way.

9. No, as far as I am aware, (and I could be corrected on this), the Fx Loop cannot be made Global.

10. Yes, the state of the Fx Loop is a part of a preset.  It will be recorded on an individual basis with every preset in the bank.

11. Yes, that is what you will have to do.  Simply bring up each preset you use in turn, turn on the Fx Loop if it is off and then store the preset again.  It may be a fag but you only need to do it once.

12. Yes, the Fx Loop does come before the amp's own effects.  It comes immediately after the Volume control.  The internal effects are applied after anything you may do to the signal in the Fx Loop.  The question of "why" is often asked.  The answer is just "they decided to do it that way".  People here have argued the case for both sides and concluded that if you want it the other way it is unfortunate but you can't have it.  Before or after was a necessary design decision to make when the amp was laid out and they chose Loop before Effects. Remember there are not too many Looper users out there!

13. As the recorded signal is before the effects then yes, the Delay will be applied to both your current Lead channel playing and the recorded Clean channel.  There is no way to prevent this.

14.  Sure, that is a useful way to go and a simple one if you have a spare footswitch.  Bear in mind that will still not solve your "Internal Effects applied to Looper signal" problem.  Also one thing to note is that you can't use a switch with an LED directly in the switched line.  The current supplied by the FSM432 to its additional switch sockets is too small to activate that LED and the LED may even interfere with the level the FSM432 will see on the switch.  The amp's internal blue LED still works as an indicator of course.

15. For setting up a preset for storing it is usually much easier to do the whole thing from the amp.  I can't think why you would need to do this in a live situation.  If you are revising an existing preset then it could be selected by the FSM432 but for something as basic as choosing a channel as a starter point, while you could do it with the footswitch in Stompbox mode, surely the FSM432 is overkill.  Just use the selector switch on the amp.  For selecting a channel in Stompbox mode, (even though there are already the dedicated switches to do this), as an additional method you could attach an expression pedal.  Link it to channel 31 and the four channels can be selected in four equal sectors of the pedal sweep.  The channel assignments were really made available to allow you to set up other third party MIDI controller pedals to get your functionality, not necessarily to just give you much more from the FSM432.

16. Yes and No!  You should accept that you can't use the amp's internal effects without these being applied to all signals, live and recorded in the Fx Loop.  However, you should be able to use one preset for the Looper then select another for your live work as long as there are no effects involved in the second live sound.  Effects applied as you record the looper will remain only active on the looper signal. That will give you more control over aspects like selecting different degrees of Gain and Volume and Tone settings for the same Crunch channel for example.  That would give you very different sounds based on the same channel.  You could only do that live with different presets.  And you can always apply external effects pedals before the looper in the Fx Loop and select them from their own switches.

Don't disregard the idea of creating different usable sounds from the same channel.  The Clean sound you get from the Lead channel with Gain right down is voiced very differently to the Clean sound from the Clean channel.  You may like it even more in some numbers.  That is what the Volume control is for.  It gives you the ability to balance preset voice levels when the Gain control is set very differently while still giving you the ability to apply a universal overall level via the Master Volume Control.  Your amp is unbelievably versatile but it comes at a cost.  You really need to explore so many ways of using it before you settle on your default method.  Even the input level you feed into the amp is a story of its own with a number of great sound options available once you know!

Thanks for that, it was a marathon even re-reading my own questions, so thank you for taking the time to answer them.

I'm intrigued by your last comment regarding the different clean sounds possible from the different channels - I'll definitely dig into that, no doubt there's hours of fun to be had there.

I remember reading something somewhere about spending a lot of time just toying with the gain/volume.

Regarding the looper situation, I was thinking about the prospect of putting a looper between the amp and the cab, I'm not sure if any looper is designed for that sort of level for a start, but maybe someone has done that, or it could be a mini project.

Woah no! You can't put the looper between the amp and cabinet. That's a definite no-no! The levels of signal are way way too big and you mustn't forget that speaker currents are massive in comparison to what the looper needs to see. Signals within the preamp generally run at fractions of a volt, a few volts at most, with currents that are measured in microamps, that's millionths of an amp, or very occasionally milliamps, that's thousandths of an amp. Your 8ohm speaker running at 30W is handling something like 15V at 2 amps. That is destructively damaging levels to the innards of a looper pedal. For God's sake don't do that.

Yes, the GM40D is a fantastically versatile beast - by design. Like most amps, people get one and quickly find a few sounds they like and stick to them as their goto voices. It's fine to do that of course but you should spend time exploring the wider capabilities before you settle on those few sounds you use.

Certainly, one mistake is to see the Clean channel as the only clean sound available, and the Crunch as the only crunch etc. Each channel has an increasing amount of overdrive/distortion available of course as their name suggests. But the key word there is "available". Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it. Each channel is actually voiced very differently, I've worked in the circuitry of the GM36 for a long time and I see that first hand. This means that a clean sound from one is not the same as a clean sound from another. We have had many people here in the past, when the amps seemed to be used for a wider range of music than high gain chugging I grant you, who have reported their preferred default clean sound was the Crunch or Lead channel set at low gain. Nowadays everyone just listens to online gurus who tell them stuff without questioning it at all. I find that leads everyone down a "default Metal" path even when they don't play that style at all. "Good metal tones" is all the advice you can find nowadays, everything else is just the same as that - apparently! Questioning things logically and factually is the backbone of learning and improving and finding wrinkles which genuinely actually work for you is the trick. I urge you to explore and question everything that you read online until you have compared and proved it to be true, my own advice included! (Except the advice about your looper which is dangerously stone cold fact and should be checked out by reading not doing. )

Here is a link to another diatribe I wrote, this time about H&K input levels. Using the GM36/40D Input Buffer This is very important to grasp and is not understood by many people at all. Everyone "knows" you just get your best sounds by diming everything, the internet tells us all the time and it never talks bollocks does it? High input signals are better by definition! Well once again that is such short sighted thinking. Read it and ty out some of the ideas in there, it makes for an interesting half hour.

But, once again, you must NOT put that looper in the output line to the speaker. If you do you will massively overload it and damage it and perhaps even the amp too, (though the H&K protection should take care of it). Incidentally, one reason why it could be useful to have the effects after the loop is that, if you want to use the amp as a slave power amp and inject your signal into it at the Loop Return, you still have the effects available for use. You can run a clean effects free amp which also feeds a second slave with its own effects available and then balance the two levels.

Haha, don't worry, I ain't putting my looper there, but is there not a specifically designer looper (or any pedal for that matter), that is designed to handle that sort of load?

Or could one be built? Maybe it would need to be too specific for each head/cab.

Thanks for other link, will give that a read, and get playing with different tones on the different channels.

No there won't be one available. It is conceivable you could take off the signal to the looper there and drop it down to the level the looper needs to see but you would still have to play it back into the Loop Return. It isn't possible to play it back direct to the speaker added on to the live signal. That is why we have power amps which are specialist circuits to drive low impedance loads like speakers and you can't even mix the outputs of two power amps into the same speaker. This requires far too much current for a device the size of a looper to supply. The only other way you could do that is to have a second amp and speaker specifically for the looper playback. I'm afraid the problem you have is not solvable by simple signal rerouting in this case.

Thanks, that helps to explain why it's a non-starter.