What kind of Celestion V30's are used in these cabinets?

Mesa Booogie has their own V30's made for them. Does H & K use stock Celestion V30's or do they have their own brand of speakers made for them? These cabinets are set at 16 ohms so I am thinking they are stock speakers.

I have an email into H & K support asking this question.

I bet this are stock Vintage 30.

H & K never got back to me. You are probable right. H & K sells a small fraction of cabinets compared to Mesa.

Nice guitars Kalpirinha!

My H&K CC212 cab has Celestion Greenbacks in it (G12M). They don't list it on their main website anymore - I feel so left out! hahaha

Anyway I love it. But I always wondered why it has greenbacks and not V30's like all their other cabs? Greenbacks are stock on the CC212.

Anyone ever A/B greenbacks and V30's?

I have Greenbacks and V30's in my 4x12 1960A Marshall Open back cabinet. They do sound different.

Since I have been sick I haven't had the energy to engage the Greenbacks in the cabinet. I am currently running two V30's in the cabinet today using the GM36. When I get the Greenbacks active I will report back here. I have to re-do the wiring in the cabinet. That's why I'm dragging my heels.

I opened my cab a couple of days ago and they're seem to be stock Chinese made Celestion V30s

I have both the TM112 and TM212 cabinets and am using them with a GM36 head.  I was hoping to use the TM112 all the time but never really dug the sound (too bright).  So I got the TM212 to compare.

The TM212 sounds warmer than the TM112.  And in my opinion is a better fit for the GM36 over the TM112 because the sound of the TM212 is closer to the Redbox output vs the TM112.  This allows me to create my patches using the Redbox output at home, and then hear a similar sound when using the TM212 at practice or shows.

My understanding is both cabinets have the V30s in them.  I've opened the back of the TM112 to confirm this, and I see a V30 in it.  But I can't seem to pry the back off the TM212 to confirm the exact same V30s.

I understand the TM212 will sound fuller because of the larger cabinet, but I don't understand why the TM112 is MUCH brighter than the TM212.

Is it possible there are different kinds of V30s in each of these cabinets causing the TM112 to sound brighter than the TM212?  As for breaking in the speakers, I've played them about the same amount of time, and they've really never changed much since I've owned them.  The TM212 was warmer from the start, whereas the TM112 was brighter.

I'd like to get the TM112 to sound less bright like the TM212.  I suppose I could replace the V30 with something else.

Thoughts or comments?

Thanks,
Ron

I totally agree that the 112 is way brighter. I A / B'd them when I bought my GM as the 212 is quite big, but even my very tolerant wife who happened to be with me at the time said the 212 sounded way nicer.

The 212 is ported so maybe that's the difference.

Glad it's not just me with this observation. Thanks for the reply.

I just looked at the H&K website which indicates both the TM112 and TM212 are ported. And I recall seeing the holes in the TM112 cabinet when I removed the back to look at the speaker.

Maybe I'll do more research on how to modify the cabinet to reduce the brightness without replacing the V30. I'd love to use this cabinet most of the time since it's so compact.

It looks like both cabs are running at 16 Ohms. The difference could be in the resistance per speaker. Most likely, it's the increased bass response of the larger box. I bet if you were to put one of the 2x12 cab speakers in the 1x12 cab, you'd probably not hear too much tonal difference, even considering the resistance difference.

I don't want to be too controversial here if it isn't wanted but just for the record, any speaker in a cabinet of volume V should sound exactly the same as two similar speakers in a cabinet of volume 2V. The bigger cabinet does not have a deeper bass response because of its greater size. For the same cone excursion, the compression within it remains exactly the same.  That's the laws of physics.  I'm not pushing an idea of my own here, it's a well established fact argued by top speaker designers like Jay Mitchell, (a guy who takes no prisoners in a technical discussion).

Imagine having your 2x12 cabinet and inserting a solid baffle across the middle dividing it into two exactly equal parts in both shape and volume.  The pressures on the baffle are 0. Each speaker produces exactly the same increase and decrease of pressure within both volumes on either side of it, and each is exactly the same as the 1 x 12. Would you expect the sound to change character?  If so, what can possibly be causing it? Panel resonances may change due to the larger areas involved but this only affects frequencies well above the bottom end.

Assuming the 2 x 12 has exactly twice the volume of the 1 x 12, if there is a difference between the two, (and I think you report there is), then there must be something else causing it.  I think one thing to consider may be that, if your 2 x 12 has two 8ohm speakers in series, then the driving conditions of each speaker are very different to the 1 x 12.  The 1 x 12 sees its signal coming from an impedance of just the output of the amp.  The 2 x 12 speakers each see their signal coming from a higher impedance, (the amp output impedance + the other speaker), and assuming these are about equal, the damping factor will be halved.  This may make an audible difference.

I think bordonbert is on the right track re: the comments around impedance in respect of the amp's output. 2 speakers wired series or parallel are going to present a totally different load to be driven. The transient peaks across various frequencies will differ when using a single speaker cabinet or one with a pair. It's very noticeable when going to extremes i.e switching from say a 1 x 10 cabinet to a 4 x 12. The 4 x 12 immediately feels like it might dis-articulate the human skeleton where as the small cabinet when plugged in instead, does not have it's cone flapping about in the wind trying to deliver lower frequencies it shines much more in the mids and highs.

The damping factor is certainly playing a part, trying to reign in two or more 12" cones at the point where they change direction to either push or pull is going to set up different sound characteristics as the mechanical mass changes with each speaker loading. The bigger movements which produce the lower frequencies are going to become more prevalent as the connected load increases in size.

yoMuzicMan wrote:I have both the TM112 and TM212 cabinets and am using them with a GM36 head.  I was hoping to use the TM112 all the time but never really dug the sound (too bright).  So I got the TM212 to compare.

The TM212 sounds warmer than the TM112.  And in my opinion is a better fit for the GM36 over the TM112 because the sound of the TM212 is closer to the Redbox output vs the TM112.  This allows me to create my patches using the Redbox output at home, and then hear a similar sound when using the TM212 at practice or shows.

My understanding is both cabinets have the V30s in them.  I've opened the back of the TM112 to confirm this, and I see a V30 in it.  But I can't seem to pry the back off the TM212 to confirm the exact same V30s.

I understand the TM212 will sound fuller because of the larger cabinet, but I don't understand why the TM112 is MUCH brighter than the TM212.

Is it possible there are different kinds of V30s in each of these cabinets causing the TM112 to sound brighter than the TM212?  As for breaking in the speakers, I've played them about the same amount of time, and they've really never changed much since I've owned them.  The TM212 was warmer from the start, whereas the TM112 was brighter.

I'd like to get the TM112 to sound less bright like the TM212.  I suppose I could replace the V30 with something else.

Thoughts or comments?

Thanks,
Ron

I have owned 2 of these great sounding TM212 cabinets and sold them due to their weight. I cannot seem to remember what Ohm each speaker was or whether they are running in series or parallel so could you please tell me what Ohm each speaker is? I am considering picking up another one and pairing a new neo Creamback which weighs in at 6 lbs lighter than the stock V30.

The difference in the sound of the TM 212 vs TM 112 is very likely the 8 ohm vs 16 ohm Vintage 30. They sound very different, a lot more different than one would suspect.

The TM 212 is two 8 ohm in series, where the TM 112 is one 16 ohm, and the 16 ohm is a much brighter speaker. I had really wanted to go with 2 1x12s, because 1) I could just bring one small cab at times and 2) I think it looks a lot cuter as a mini stack.

But, comparing them side by side in the store, I had to go with the 2x12. Well, it's still a lot lighter than my Mesa 2x12 which has 2 16 ohms in parallel for a total of 8 ohms. My Mesa cab is a bit brighter than the Hughes and Kettner, but I don't think by as much as the H&K 1x12 was, although I did not compare those two side by side.

Here is a good video for comparison:

Hello,

I have both a TM112 and a TM212. Actually, the small cabinet have 16Ohms V30 inside and the big brother have 2x8Ohms V30.
The 16 Ohms is really brighter than the 8 Ohm. There is a comparison on youtube between the two.
I really prefer the sound of the 8Ohm but it's a question of personal taste.

I really enjoy the TM212

thanks