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    Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

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    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by ConradK on Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:12 pm

    Hey Guys

    Hope you can help with this - I tried a volume pedal in the loop today and whilst it works it alters my tone! It seems to add a little gain for some reason

    I use emg active pickups and the volume pedal is an active volume pedal (guitar Teck) with mag pots and minimum and maximum buttons

    Any ideas ?
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    mmiddei

    Posts : 29
    Join date : 2015-05-30
    Age : 56
    Location : Bethlehem, PA

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by mmiddei on Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:33 pm

    Hey ConradK,
    I'm pretty sure the issue is the "Active" volume pedal as opposed to a passive type. Active Volume Pedals are typically designed to go into the guitar input of amplifiers. The GM's FX loop is after all the pre amp gain stages and sending this into the Active Volume Pedal circuit is probably causing the issue.

    Here are some inexpensive passive volume pedals that should work fine:
    http://www.guitarcenter.com/search?Ns=r&Ntt=passive+volume+pedal

    This one may be the ticket; it's passive and has a pot to set volume range:
    http://www.guitarcenter.com/Modtone/MT-VOL-Xcelerator-Volume-Pedal.gc#productDetail

    Hope this helps...

    steve_napp

    Posts : 8
    Join date : 2015-09-10
    Location : Naples, FL

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by steve_napp on Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:42 pm

    Hey Conrad,

    I think Mike is probably on the right path with the vp being active. Also note that it's my understanding when using the vp in the loop you should be using a low impedance 25k pedal. If you use the vp in front of the GM you should be using the same low impedance 25k pedal since your pups are active EMGs as well.
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    mmiddei

    Posts : 29
    Join date : 2015-05-30
    Age : 56
    Location : Bethlehem, PA

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by mmiddei on Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:14 pm

    I think the 25K pot only matters with EMG's when you're going into the guitar input, but I'm not 100% positive, the loop is after the gain stage so I don't think the EMG's are relevant at that point, but again I'm not positive.

    This Ernie Ball looks like it will do the trick either way, can be used as stereo or mono into the guitar input or the loop, a bit pricy though.
    http://www.guitarcenter.com/Ernie-Ball/Stereo-25K-Ohm-Volume-Pedal.gc
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    VoodooJeff

    Posts : 170
    Join date : 2015-07-17
    Age : 43
    Location : dfw, tx

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by VoodooJeff on Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:33 pm

    FWIW, the Ernie Ball pedal is the best I`ve personally heard. It`s the one I wanted when I got the Morley I had and if I hadn`t gotten such a smoking deal on it I would have held out for the EB. Of course now I`ve got the midi CC pedal working exactly how I want it so I don`t need an external volume pedal, but if my opinion is worth anything I`d cast a vote for the EB as well.

    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by ConradK on Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:02 am

    You guys are fantastic - thanks very much

    Now to go and spend MORE money

    steve_napp

    Posts : 8
    Join date : 2015-09-10
    Location : Naples, FL

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by steve_napp on Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:10 am

    Haha, helluva hobby huh? I'll be in line right behind as I need another low impedance vp myself. My wife is always asking me to ditch this damn guitar thing and just join a yacht club and country club instead.
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    VoodooJeff

    Posts : 170
    Join date : 2015-07-17
    Age : 43
    Location : dfw, tx

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by VoodooJeff on Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:48 am

    steve_napp wrote:Haha, helluva hobby huh?  I'll be in line right behind as I need another low impedance vp myself.  My wife is ex-wife was always asking me to ditch this damn guitar thing and just join a yacht club and country club instead.



    ^^^ That`s how mine would read LOL

    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by ConradK on Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:42 am

    Hey gravydb

    Does the M audio midi sport work with the I pad and its app ? Is it a alternative for the I rig or can it only be used for PC ?

    At that price point I can get one immediately and use it with the I pad app !

    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by ConradK on Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:48 am

    Whilst I'm on here

    I have checked out the ernie ball vp jnr 6181 passive 25k volume pedal with audio taper and whilst this ticks all the boxes it is simply too expensive.

    Just see the Morley mini M2vo - looks like this may do the trick as well at a lower price point - is anyone else using passive 25k volume pedals in the effects loop that have a lower price point?

    I m using the GM36 with an ESP with active emg pickups but as I'm using the pedal in the loop this should not matter ?

    Suggestions greatly appreciated
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    gravydb

    Posts : 193
    Join date : 2014-06-22
    Location : PA

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by gravydb on Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:52 am

    ConradK wrote:Hey gravydb

    Does the M audio midi sport work with the I pad and its app ? Is it a alternative for the I rig or can it only be used for PC ?

    At that price point I can get one immediately and use it with the I pad app !
    The M-Audio midisport is USB based and so I don't think it'll work with an iPad (?) I'm using it with a Win7 laptop and it works beautifully.

    On the volume pedal subject... it's simple, if you are going to put it in the amp's fx loop you need a low impedance VP. Even if your gtr has passive pups, you still need a low impedance VP there because at that stage the signal is low impedance (IE a line-level or active signal). I'm currently using a Boss FV-500L.

    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by ConradK on Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:07 am

    Thanks bud.

    Much appreciated - I'm sure I could get a ian to I pad adaptor

    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by ConradK on Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:59 am

    Feedback on my new passive volume pedal - thanks for the help guys - bought z boss fv500l and running it in the effects loop - works perfect ! Pedal was only £49 new and has a great sweep and is built like a tank - best of all no tone suck (although if I'm being ULTRA ULTRA sensitive I can hear the tiniest bit of tone change but it's so small that I played the same piece about 15 times to make sure and even then realised it was so minuscule that my playing dynamics would negate it anyway)

    I now have a fully functional v pedal and boss loop station in the effects loop

    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by ConradK on Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:59 am

    Feedback on my new passive volume pedal - thanks for the help guys - bought z boss fv500l and running it in the effects loop - works perfect ! Pedal was only £49 new and has a great sweep and is built like a tank - best of all no tone suck (although if I'm being ULTRA ULTRA sensitive I can hear the tiniest bit of tone change but it's so small that I played the same piece about 15 times to make sure and even then realised it was so minuscule that my playing dynamics would negate it anyway)

    I now have a fully functional v pedal and boss loop station in the effects loop
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    bordonbert

    Posts : 749
    Join date : 2015-01-28
    Age : 97
    Location : Southern England

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by bordonbert on Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:09 pm

    The rumour is that the H is 250k and the L is 25k.  With an Effects Loop Send output impedance of 220 Ohms and a Return input impedance of 25k, the L will have its contour influenced by the match but the idea of tone suck is really a non-worry Conrad!  I'd bet that what you are hearing is your ears' perception of tonal balance as volume changes.  It's worth looking at the ear's sensitivity curves.  Hearing Sensitivity Curves  If your non tech then don't worry about not understanding everything you see there.  Just look at how each curve's bass mid and treble balance changes as the loudness decreases.  Lower volumes mean more perceived bass.  That's your ear not your equipment.  And what is your volume pedal designed to change?

    The loop out at 220ohms is low enough to take care of that end and is unaffected in any way by having 25k of pedal resistance stuck on the end of it, (the same as its own following input).  The 25k input will see no difference at high pedal settings being fed from 220 ohms into about 12.5k, then a difference between the original 220 ohms and the pedal resistance selected as the volume is dropped.  The designers will have done their sums and made sure that the frequency breaks of the input cap etc will be well outside the audible frequency band.

    Since the last century the whole idea has been virtually non-existent in every way if linked equipment is used correctly.  50 years ago when no one really cared about matching this was a common issue, pretty quickly designers realised they needed to design their equipment properly and worked out the consequences and it ruled out the whole idea in anything but a "can measure it on the bench" way.  And what you can measure at 250kHz and above can't be detected by anything other than maybe a mutant bat with golden ears in a sound booth!  The only way it crops up now in an easily distinguished way is in equipment designed by amateurs on pedal sites!  Laughing

    ConradK

    Posts : 81
    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: Buffered volume pedals are where it's at for me!

    Post by ConradK on Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:15 pm

    Thanks for taking the time to explain that - much appreciated

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