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    Re-thinking speakers...maybe ditch the cabs use FRFR via RedBox?

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    steve_napp

    Posts : 8
    Join date : 2015-09-10
    Location : Naples, FL

    Re-thinking speakers...maybe ditch the cabs use FRFR via RedBox?

    Post by steve_napp on Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:27 pm

    Howdy! I’m a soon-to-be new user of the GM36 – it should be here Saturday, woohoo!

    I am coming from Axe FX land and currently using a FRFR (full range, flat response) type set-up with a FBT Verve 12ma active (powered) stage monitor for my speaker output. I’m predominantly an at-home player right now and of course I’m after huge overdriven tubey goodness but at bedroom levels. I also have a H&K 1x12 cab coming but I’m thinking of trying out the Verve powered monitor speaker connected to the Red Box output on the gm36 instead of using any speaker cabs.

    As I understand it when using the gm36 without any cabs plugged in and using 36 watts it shouldn’t build up heat knocking the power down. So then it can be cranked up to get the tubes going. Then I can capture that goodness through the powered monitor speaker via the Red Box output and have bedroom volume cranked tubes without resorting to an external attenuator or similar.

    Crazy world…going from conventional all the way into digitally modelled FRFR land then into the hybrid land of tubes driving line output powered speakers all under digital control.

    Curious to know if anyone has tried such a method and interested to hear if this might be feasible – I appreciate any thoughts on the matter as I'm a total noob gm36 operator.

    Hopefully on Saturday I can try it and see how it goes!
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    VoodooJeff

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    Age : 43
    Location : dfw, tx

    Re: Re-thinking speakers...maybe ditch the cabs use FRFR via RedBox?

    Post by VoodooJeff on Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:56 pm

    with no speaker cable plugged in it automatically goes into Mute mode, full activation of the power soak. If you were to play a different tube amp with no speaker cab hooked up it would most likely blow the output transformer....the second most expensive component in the amp....and NOT a standard warranty failure.

    The heat it generates isn`t beyond what it`s designed to handle, but simply putting a small desk fan behind it will do wonders to keep it significantly cooler. Also, the D.I. is LINE level, and many audio interfaces will be expecting mic level (much, much lower) signal so you could end up clipping the input, depending on your interface (a line level pad will solve the issue entirely). With that said, you can still turn the amp up in muted direct mode for a healthy tube driven tone.

    (I use a PreSonus Audiobox USB as my audio interface, and the amp pushes it right into clipping. I ended up just running the DI from the amp into a small mixer I wasn`t using at the house, and the mixer into the PreSonus. This way I can turn the amp up as loud as I want for the tone I need without clipping the input device. A 40db pad should have the same effect and can be found on ebay for about $20)

    **EDIT: Ah, I see you`ll be running redbox into a powered speaker, which will be expecting the line level signal from the redbox out so disregard the last part of my post as it really only applies to home recording**


    Last edited by VoodooJeff on Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : late observation)

    amtate

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    Join date : 2015-11-02
    Location : North East UK

    Re: Re-thinking speakers...maybe ditch the cabs use FRFR via RedBox?

    Post by amtate on Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:32 am

    Hmm haven't tried that but I'm also new here having also arrived from Fractal land!

    I must admit that I didn't really care for FRFR solution for live performances as it always felt a bit sterile as though I was missing something. I ended up getting the TM212 cab with V30's and although it's early days I've found that using power soak at 5w gets me so really nice full tones.

    I've seen other users here mention the Celestion G12M Greenbacks can give a much nicer (less harsh) tone that the V30's so that may well be my next mod!

    Good luck!

    trb

    Posts : 61
    Join date : 2014-07-26
    Age : 51
    Location : France

    Re: Re-thinking speakers...maybe ditch the cabs use FRFR via RedBox?

    Post by trb on Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:22 am

    Hello

    I'm in the exact same config. I still have, love and use a lot my Axe Fx II with Quantum firmware. A great unit, no question.
    And in parallel I love to play my GM36, to have a different feeling with a tube head. No opposition in between, just a nice completion in tone, feel, playing etc.

    As you can check in other threads, I swap the tubes to tame the brightness of the GM36, and made some changes in the speakers in my 2*12 and 1*12 cabs. The conclusion is clear, at least for me, to have the blues rock - hard rock - heavy rock tones I'm looking for => In my 2*12 cab I'll keep the eminence Cannabis Rex (quiet dark) and pair it with a Greenback G12M (eminence Governor still to bright), and put another G12M in my 1*12.
    I just tested in my 2*12 with only the Eminence CREX connected and it sounds much more like I love, and I can add some treble/presence instead of rolling down to 0 !

    Getting back to FRFR question, I found the Redbox to provide a really nice tone in my poweramp matrix GM50 (the one I use for the Axe FX). Great sound, but as the line level in quiet high at 0 dB, the amp is pushed to hard. So I add a DI Box (BBS Audio AR-133 active Di) with pad at -10dB and it works fine.

    Another thing I tried, is to connect the standard speaker out of teh GM36 to my loadbox (Kock LB120), to the rear input of the Axe FX, and just use the Cab block simulation of the Axe FX, powered through te matrix poweramps => Works fine too in this way.

    But, as a conclusion with my usage, I clearly prefer to play the GM36 with a regular guitar cab, as I have my AFX for FRFR tones chasing. But with G12Ms and dark speacker as the C.Rex !
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    yoMuzicMan

    Posts : 45
    Join date : 2014-05-11
    Location : Colorado

    Re: Re-thinking speakers...maybe ditch the cabs use FRFR via RedBox?

    Post by yoMuzicMan on Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:36 pm

    I've gone from modelers to amps back to modelers. I've played live with the GM36 and a 1x12, a 2x12, direct with the Redbox, and all combinations. It never ends for me. haha...

    But lately, I'm going back to my GM36 and leaving modelers behind again. I tried the Redbox output from the head for the sound guy, but I never loved it. I worked, but it just didn't give me the sound I wanted. In the studio, I also tried the Redbox, and with an impulse response in my DAW, it sounds pretty darn good. However, without a speaker load, I couldn't appreciate the full potential of the 4 power tubes in the GM36.

    So I've purchased a Torpedo Live. This should allow me to use the GM36 with all 4 power tubes since there will be a load on the speaker output. I'll be able to play live with or without a cabinet and record at home using all 4 power tubes all the time. Not sure if its worth the money for the Torpedo Live, but I'm hopeful I will hear something a bit more to my liking.

    Once I get this thing and find the cabinet simulation I like best, I'll put up some recordings on Soundcloud.

    Anyone else here using their GM36 with a Torpedo Live?

    trb

    Posts : 61
    Join date : 2014-07-26
    Age : 51
    Location : France

    Re: Re-thinking speakers...maybe ditch the cabs use FRFR via RedBox?

    Post by trb on Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:38 am

    hi YoMusicMan

    that's very interesting. I was thinking about the Torpedo Live, a really great unit btw...Because as I'm used to play with my AFX II, too, I would like to be able to bypass the redbox Ir with only a dry signal and use My AFX or the plugin WoSIII from Two Notes to add an IR at the end of the chain.
    But, except with some MODs in the GM36 circuit we can't by pass the redbox Ir.

    So, I had in the past a Koch LB120 as loadbox and did that, but I sold it to buy other gears...

    The Torpedo Live is really great to have full blast tube tone with the GM36 and they have the H&K 4*12 G12M loaded impulse at Two Notes, which is very good. I bought it with WoS III to play with the LB120. And the sound was great. As the TLive as a reactive load, comparing to the passive in the LB120, that would be better.

    Waiting for your tests !!!
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    yoMuzicMan

    Posts : 45
    Join date : 2014-05-11
    Location : Colorado

    Re: Re-thinking speakers...maybe ditch the cabs use FRFR via RedBox?

    Post by yoMuzicMan on Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:05 am

    Hey trb.

    Thanks for the insight. That makes me feel like I'll get what I'm after. These things don't arrive at Sweetwater until the end of the month, but I already ordered one. I should have it shortly after and will post some tests. Maybe some A/B between the Torpedo Live and the Redbox out of the GM36.

    Peace!

    trb

    Posts : 61
    Join date : 2014-07-26
    Age : 51
    Location : France

    Re: Re-thinking speakers...maybe ditch the cabs use FRFR via RedBox?

    Post by trb on Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:30 am

    Will be very interesting to have your feedback !
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    slockrem

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    Join date : 2016-02-07
    Age : 43
    Location : Racine, WI

    Re: Re-thinking speakers...maybe ditch the cabs use FRFR via RedBox?

    Post by slockrem on Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:26 am

    Does anyone know if the H&K Redbox 5 has built in mic simulation vs. the Redbox on the GM which only provides speaker/cab simulation?  More along the lines of what the new Deluxe TM's have?  For the cost, I'm tempted to give that a try, if it does.

    Edit: Found the answer


    Last edited by slockrem on Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Actually read the description)

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