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    Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

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    Davus PG

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    Join date : 2014-06-11

    Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by Davus PG on Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:55 am

    One of the most trebbly amps ever?

    I find that on most presets I need to have my treble at around 2 or 3 out of 10.

    It seems to me that is wasting a lot of EQ tweaking potential.

    I still love it though
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    bordonbert

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by bordonbert on Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:51 pm

    I'm with you. I love the GM too but I think the tone controls in general are one of the weaknesses of this amp. They have no real range to speak of and are far too subtle in a live setting. The Middle seems to overlap the Treble and Bass in a non-intuitive sort of way and I find the Resonance control almost has more audible effect than the Bass! I'm seriously thinking of looking into the box and seeing if they can't be broadened in some way. I used to use a Valvetronix and one of the tricks with that was to put a multi-band equalizer in the loop which really brought some voicings to life. I think the GM may respond to the same treatment, but it shouldn't really need it! And all of this even after valve replacements and careful speaker selection to remove the constant top end sheen.

    ConradK

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    Join date : 2015-09-09

    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by ConradK on Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:47 pm

    I've not tried an Eq pedal in the loop with this amp however I did do it with my orange dark terror - worked a treat - allowed me to tighten up the bass frequencies and drop the treble and scoop or bump the mids.

    I'm not finding this amp too trebly and have found that the tone control on my guitar works well when i feel I need to tame the treble - I have set up a zz top patch (billy gibbons uses no treble) and I found it sounded great

    I've got the stock Chinese tubes
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    VoodooJeff

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by VoodooJeff on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:31 pm

    It is. It`s very bright and almost fizzy. Some say preamp tubes have helped, some say speakers are the answer. Personally I`d like to get in there and bump the bias up just a tick and see what happens but we don`t get adjustable bias. It`s a great amp, but it does make certain sacrifices.

    ConradK

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by ConradK on Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:15 pm

    I turned mine up today and yes I can see what you guys are saying but urning down the treble and using my tone knob on the guitar sorted it very quickly
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    namklak

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by namklak on Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:52 pm

    JJ's all thru (not a subtle change). I then turn my Presence up to 255 for many patches to cut thru in a big band setting.
    My $.02.

    Davus PG

    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2014-06-11

    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by Davus PG on Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:54 pm

    For solos I used a Maxon Eq pedal for a while and with that I could get monster tones. It's all fixable without taking apart (as that's way beyond my capabilities!), but never ceases to amaze me that on a basic crunch setting I need to have the treble at around 2 out of 10.

    I'm running mine through the H&K TM212 cab.

    As others have pointed out the tone control on the guitar can have a huge effect - I've never used mine as much as I do now.

    All in all though the benefits of the GMT far outweigh the minor negatives. Can't see me changing it really.

    Good to know I'm not alone in my observations though!
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    bordonbert

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by bordonbert on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:16 am

    I've said it before, "unsere Grandmeisters sind Deutsche!" Wink At the risk of generalising hugely, (the risk? Laughing ), the Germans are not known for much other than heavier types of music, Schubert Kraftwerk and Oompah bands aside. It started with Beethoven, carried on with Wagner and ended up with the likes of Sam Fox and David Hasselhoff! I reckon it's pretty natural for them to voice a German amp in that direction. It's DNA just isn't Brit sounding Marshall or 'Mericky sounding Fender. Now that isn't to say that's all the GM can do, it's wonderfully broad, but I still feel there is an underlying heavy leaning to its basic setup which you have to learn to tame. Seems to fit in with what you guys are saying too.
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    Phrasemaker

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by Phrasemaker on Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:08 am

    Tone control on the guitar and the right cabinet, the emphasis on the cabinet from my own experience. When I first got mine, played it through V30s and no longer needed to shave for about a month, almost cut my face off. Bottom end was sparse. Bought a cabinet to suit my taste, bass and treble at midway. The floor shakes and the top end is warm and appealing.


    Last edited by Phrasemaker on Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Seemed like a good idea)

    WhiskeyMike

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by WhiskeyMike on Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:07 am

    "When I first got mine, played it through V30s and no longer needed to shave for about a month, almost cut my face off."

    Yes, exactly! It is what I like most, it's rip your face off sound. Deeply contented.

    Your mileage may vary.
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    bordonbert

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by bordonbert on Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:32 am

    Hahaha! Laughing Thank God for variation in the world eh?

    I've seen your recent pic of your setup Phrasemaker, you have it running with an Orange cab don't you? I thought that had (a) V30 in it but it doesn't sound like it from what you are saying. If it isn't a V30 what is the secret ingredient in there?

    As for you WhiskeyMike, you've obviously been at the Frisky Juice far too often. Your head has gone numb if that jowl shredding top end isn't unpleasant! Razz I just hope to all heck you don't play a Tele through it? Wink (I am worried it may even be something with pointy bits sticking out at awkward angles and a dark tomblike paint job based on skulls. Suspect )
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    Phrasemaker

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by Phrasemaker on Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:15 pm

    " I thought that had (a) V30 in it but it doesn't sound like it from what you are saying. If it isn't a V30 what is the secret ingredient in there?"


    Ah bordonbert, Yes an orange cabinet, Jim Root signature model to be exact. Loaded with two 12" Orange, voice of the world speakers. Made for Orange by Celestion, and voiced to Orange's spec. Darker, meaner, yet very pretty when played clean with tele or strat. 

    WhiskeyMike

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by WhiskeyMike on Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:10 pm

    bordonbert wrote:Hahaha! Laughing  Thank God for variation in the world eh?


    I've seen your recent pic of your setup Phrasemaker, you have it running with an Orange cab don't you?  I thought that had (a) V30 in it but it doesn't sound like it from what you are saying.  If it isn't a V30 what is the secret ingredient in there?

    As for you WhiskeyMike, you've obviously been at the Frisky Juice far too often.  Your head has gone numb if that jowl shredding top end isn't unpleasant! Razz  I just hope to all heck you don't play a Tele through it? Wink   (I am worried it may even be something with pointy bits sticking out at awkward angles and a dark tomblike paint job based on skulls. Suspect )

    Heh. I 'did' take a bullet in the head a long time ago. It left a lasting 'impression'. That might account for some of my musical tastes. Very Happy
    Yes, our differences are what both set us apart and make us, humanity, into a 'whole'.

    But as for whiskey, I do not partake. White wine on occasion.

    And I do! I DO play a Tele through it from time to time! Shrieking wildness! I have (um, looking around, one, two... thought there were three, oh well) two Teles, and am thinking about a third.
    Just as wild is the Torero PRS with Hetfields. Wow!
    But no fanciful paint jobs (although I was attracted to some of those museum quality ESPs). I am more into beautiful woods, beautiful tones, and beautiful combinations thereof.
    I am putting together a Cocobolo on Mahogany strat body, with rosewood/rosewood neck both pieces dark Indian and both quartersawn but against each other, and Bare Knuckles pickups. Should be fun, I will post pics as I progress if anyone cares.
    The cocobolo top has four 'eyes', and is amazing.
    It is possible I got a GM36 that is more mellow than most. Or not. It definitely is on a few people's list of 'gotta haves' now after they have heard it - and lifted it.

    You cannot (sorta mostly but yah sometimes) pigeonhole a player by the alias. Very Happy
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    ignantios

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    Join date : 2015-10-09

    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by ignantios on Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:05 am

    Hi to all. ! New owner also here. Well my first impressions are :
    1) the amp is indeed trebbly but in some way you can handle it.I haven't yet change the stock tubes. I am thinking of going with the jj 's.But i don't know if it has a serious impact tonewise or it is a placebo effect.
    2) the worst channel for me that i can't use due to it's fizziness is the lead channel and not the ultra. I don't know what i 'm doing wrong since everyone says that the ultra suffers from that characteristic but from my experience i think the lead is very fizzy.
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    Phrasemaker

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by Phrasemaker on Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:31 am

    1) the amp is indeed trebbly but in some way you can handle it.I haven't yet change the stock tubes. I am thinking of going with the jj 's.But i don't know if it has a serious impact tonewise or it is a placebo effect.
    2) the worst channel for me that i can't use due to it's fizziness is the lead channel and not the ultra. I don't know what i 'm doing wrong since everyone says that the ultra suffers from that characteristic but from my experience i think the lead is very fizzy.

    Yes the amp is very bright, no a criticism of it more an observation which is or isn't to the taste of some owners. The fizz on certain channels in my experience can vary depending upon what's being played through it. Example, I plug in an Epiphone LP select lead and there is no noticeable fizz. Plug in a Gibson LP custom or a Gibson SG and there is a wee bit of fizz. 

    My not having to shave comment made at an earlier time, again not a criticism, more observation. I already own three tubemeister amps prior to buying the Grand version and although they don't sing and dance the overall brightness is present with all of them. Great if one can dial it out to one's own preference, mildly annoying if a chosen cab leans even more toward where one might not want to be.

    I've been very used to playing through 4x12 cabs but for reasons of global harmony and the suchlike it's rather selfish for me to use the large cabs around the house, having them driven enough to get a rounded tone. I also don't like having to attenuate tone controls on an amp right to the available extremes, I like it somewhere near the middle to allow more adjustment in either direction when wanting to fit in to an overall sound when playing with a band. 

    If some folk and their music like a garish thin gutless tone that's really great, good for them. My main purpose for using tube amps is their potential warmth and harmonic characteristics. The amps sound better once they're played in for sure, just like cabinets are better once the drivers loosen up around the edges. 

    All very subjective and down to personal choice.
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    VoodooJeff

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by VoodooJeff on Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:06 pm

    Hey WhiskeyMike, what part of VT are you in? I lived there for a few years (lived in putney, went to high school in Brattleboro)

    WhiskeyMike

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by WhiskeyMike on Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:17 am

    Bellows falls area
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    VoodooJeff

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by VoodooJeff on Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:34 am

    WhiskeyMike wrote:Bellows falls area

    Cool man, *almost* neighbors. Nice place but I don`t miss it.
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    Stapletongas

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by Stapletongas on Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:01 am

    The amp is "toppy", tube swapping helps, so does playing with each control to find out what each knob does.

    Mine is loaded with quad matched JJ's in the power section. Pre amp is JJ ECC83's gold pin in V1 and 2, V3 is a Mullard balanced 12AT7. I'm going through a Marshall 1912. Generally using a PRS Bernie Marsden SE with a set of SD Pearly Gates. I generally play classic rock, blues/rock. Mostly use crunch and lead and make use of the guitar volume and tone knobs to clean up etc.

    Ok, firstly dial everything except reverb to 12 o'clock. (All numbers referred to now are in "o'clock".

    Choose a power setting that gets the master to at least 1 or 2, even if that means turning the pre amp volume down. It's good for the power amp back end to come through, it adds tone and beef.

    Now one at a time play with presence and then resonance. Set to taste.

    Reverb off

    Rotate all the way and one at a time treble, mid then basis, keep the others at 12. I find mid has the most dramatic sweep. Treble and bass seem to react together more. In fact keeping treble and bass at 12, just rotating mid to taste pretty much gets me there for crunch and lead tones, leaving minor adjustment of treble and bass if required at all.

    I am getting the impression the the eq knobs are not a 1-10, but are all cut and boost from 12 o'clock instead.

    Hope some of you find this a good starting point.

    Davus PG

    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2014-06-11

    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by Davus PG on Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:23 am

    Stapletongas wrote:The amp is "toppy", tube swapping helps, so does playing with each control to find out what each knob does.

    Mine is loaded with quad matched JJ's in the power section. Pre amp is JJ ECC83's gold pin in V1 and 2, V3 is a Mullard balanced 12AT7. I'm going through a Marshall 1912. Generally using a PRS Bernie Marsden SE with a set of SD Pearly Gates. I generally play classic rock, blues/rock. Mostly use crunch and lead and make use of the guitar volume and tone knobs to clean up etc.

    Ok, firstly dial everything except reverb to 12 o'clock. (All numbers referred to now are in "o'clock".

    Choose a power setting that gets the master to at least 1 or 2, even if that means turning the pre amp volume down. It's good for the power amp back end to come through, it adds tone and beef.

    Now one at a time play with presence and then resonance. Set to taste.

    Reverb off

    Rotate all the way and one at a time treble, mid then basis, keep the others at 12. I find mid has the most dramatic sweep. Treble and bass seem to react together more. In fact keeping treble and bass at 12, just rotating mid to taste pretty much gets me there for crunch and lead tones, leaving minor adjustment of treble and bass if required at all.

    I am getting the impression the the eq knobs are not a 1-10, but are all cut and boost from 12 o'clock instead.

    Hope some of you find this a good starting point.



    Thanks for this, rehearsal tonight and I'm hoping to have time to experiment a bit this week.

    We are also planning to record so I was thinking of giving the Red Box another go and fine tuning on the mixer. Before i bought my GM i spoke with the H&K tech dept about a few questions and one of the things that came up was the Red Box and this was a response I got:

    Especially with the Red Box DI out you can benefit from the power soak! The level of the Red Box always depends on the channel and master volume, and the step from 36 (4x powertubes) to 18 (2x powertubes) makes a difference in level (3dB less), once you are on 18 watt, the level stays the same for 5, 1 and 0 watt.


    So this means that in theory I can still get the tone benefits of running the amp harder (in say 18 or 5 w mode) through to the audience via the Red Box, mixer and PA?

    Davus PG

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by Davus PG on Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:29 am

    Was late for my rehearsal last night so no time to tweak as I had hoped, however I did get to quickly try my amp at 5w with master volume at 12 of clock, channel volume and gain backed off and it instantly sounded so much richer, beefier and generally better. Will be making all new presets at 5w so thanks to everyone who suggested this.

    Tried DI'ing into the mixer again and the results weren't so great so need to work on that.

    Generally the gain on a mixer should be asent low as possible right? Except the lower you have it the weaker the signal that comes through.
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    gravydb

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    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by gravydb on Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:59 am

    Davus, the Red Box signal is 'line level', so make sure you are using a line level input on your mixer. It may be a separate 1/4" jack on the channel, or there may be a switch on the channel. If you are simply running a XLR cable from the Red Box to the regular mic/instrument input on the mixer, the signal will be way too hot.

    On our mixer, the line level input is a 1/4" jack. I use a regular xlr cable with a 1/4" adapter. You can also experiment with in-line attenuators (-10dB, -20dB, etc) if you still need to get the signal level down.

    Davus PG

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    Join date : 2014-06-11

    Re: Is it just me, or is the Grandmeister....

    Post by Davus PG on Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:15 am

    gravydb wrote:Davus, the Red Box signal is 'line level', so make sure you are using a line level input on your mixer. It may be a separate 1/4" jack on the channel, or there may be a switch on the channel. If you are simply running a XLR cable from the Red Box to the regular mic/instrument input on the mixer, the signal will be way too hot.

    On our mixer, the line level input is a 1/4" jack. I use a regular xlr cable with a 1/4" adapter. You can also experiment with in-line attenuators (-10dB, -20dB, etc) if you still need to get the signal level down.
    \


    Yes that's exactly what I used - XLR cable with a 1/4 inch adaptor into the line in.

    When we played the recorded version bak through the PA it sounded really fizzy. Different speaker and cabinet sizes etc permitting it still sounded pretty ropey

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