Differences between Tubemeister 18 and Tubemeister Deluxe 20

Hi Everyone
I currently own a Tubemeister 18 that I use mostly in my bedroom in silent mode and occasionally jamming with 1x12 Celestion Vintage 30 cabinet.
I love the versatiliy of this amp, especially the power selector and the Red Box Out which allows me to play at night.
However I am not entirely convinced about the lead channel and have somewhat difficulty to get the right tone (mostly low-mid overdrive).

I understand the Tubemeister Deluxe 20 has a different architecture with the Cathode Follower: http:// blog.hughes-and-kettner .com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/TM18-to-TM-Deluxe-20-cathode-follower-case-study.pdf
but I cannot find any practical comparison or review between the two of them.

I also heard that changing the tubes would solve some issues but many video comparisons between tubes shows that the differences are minimal and almost imperceptible in a live situation.

Is there anyone of you who had the chance to try them both and could share a little advice? would be a big upgrade getting the Deluxe 20 or the difference in tone and gain is still somewhat minimal?

Than you all

Can't speak for the TM20 VE, I've never played through one, but there are a few things you could consider here.  I'm a H&K admirer and have been since I got my first used TM36 many years ago.  Their designs are thorough and well engineered and it's that which counts in the end.  They do a lot of things really well and a few things pretty poorly.  But they are designed that way.  It's impossible to design an amp which can do everything and do it cheaply and H&K makes its own compromises along with almost every other manufacturer out there.  You use them if they suit your own wants and don't use them if they don't.  Either doesn't make them or stop them being great bits of gear.

That said, the H&K marketing guys are ace at what they do.  Let me emphasise one thing which is mentioned there, it's not quite a Cathode Follower which does this, it is a Direct Coupled Cathode Follower or DCCF.  The DCCF sound, produced by its unique even harmonic distortion generating mechanism, is not their discovery, it has been a known effect in amps for decades.  It's why Marshall have used one in virtually everything they have produced.  H&K just weren't aware of it as a powerful marketing tool until, well, actually we here asked them a question which brought this under scrutiny.  It was even us who pointed them to the Valve Wizard site in their link!  Until then they didn't appear to be aware of the effect at all then, suddenly, their blog had info on it and how it was a major contributor of tone in their amps.  All I mean by all of this is, don't get set alight by the idea that H&K have used this to any advantage that no one else has.  They are just shouting it out as a marketing strategy nowadays.  I have no doubt that the inclusion of a DCCF into the TM20 will change the sound from the TM18.  Whether it improves it will be down to your own tastes and what other gear you hook it up to.

VenturiEffect wrote:I also heard that changing the tubes would solve some issues but many video comparisons between tubes shows that the differences are minimal and almost imperceptible in a live situation.

Shakespeare: (The Merchant Of Venice) wrote:A Daniel come to judgment! yea, a Daniel! O wise young judge, how I do honour thee!

At last someone who uses their ears and not their desire to join the gurus!  I have been "playing" with electronics for a long lifetime both for fun and professionally alongside each other and I have rarely come across anyone in the guitar world who will admit to what you have just said.  There is little if any real difference between valve makes of the same type and that can be demonstrated on the test bench easily.  No one wants to accept that as a fact, they know their ears are more sensitive than our modern test equipment.  I can tell you there is much more difference between individual valves of the same make due to simple production spread than there is between manufacturers.  Well done for using your ears and honesty.  Now do the same thing with "magic tone capacitors are better than sh***y ceramics" and "PCBs suck tone" and "opamp and diode and transistor rolling" which are all internet myths and hype in our gear.

If you do a search you will find there are a few threads where the DCCF is mentioned and discussed.  Here is one as an example:  DCCF Mod To Fix Switchon Stress

Thank you for your articulate answer.
In regards of the DCCF it's great that the community is a drive for improvement on their products. too bad they didn't gave you the recognition you deserve. By mentioning it I wasn't implying it's better than without it but underlying how the TM20 it's different in architecture, thus could provide a different tone. Which difference is what I am trying to understand

Thank you also for your praise. Initially I was somewhat hooked by the idea of changing the preamp tubes and magically get a new tone but more than one empirical test shows clearly that this isn't the case and in most of the cases the improvement comes purely by the additional volume given by a newer valve.

Given that, I rather try a direct comparison but in my area there are no dealers with in-house HK Amps.

Thank you

Oh, another point you posted...

VenturiEffect wrote:However I am not entirely convinced about the lead channel and have somewhat difficulty to get the right tone (mostly low-mid overdrive).

Have you found this thread?  Using the H&K Input Buffer  If not it may make interesting reading.  Higher gain work with the H&K amps frequently suffers because people don't understand how their amp is designed and setup and then how to get the best out of that.  Take a look and see if it might help your own Lead channel problem.

Here is a link to that site which showed that there is no difference between valve makes - despite them frigging the data to try to prove it showed there was!!!  (They sell valves remember.)  Valve comparisons

Now, at the bottom of their page they originally showed a graph of their results which "proved" that the ridiculous claims they make about each valve all down the page were valid.  When I posted the rebuttal online they didn't get in touch with me, they didn't remove their stupid valve descriptions, they just removed the graph which showed they were fraudsters.  Here is their own original graph as I lifted it direct from their page.  Frequency responses of different manufacturers 12AX7 in the same test circuit  Each curve is a different make of valve.  The graph clearly shows that they all have the same frequency response, just slightly different gains in the stage.

Here is the whole thread for reference.  Our thread where this was discussed