Overdrive pedal through the effects loop

Hi

I have just purchased a Tubemeister 20 deluxe and intend to use it for gigging, I love the clean channel but found it difficult to balance the tone I liked on the overdrive channel with the settings I liked for the lead channel.
I have tried an overdrive pedal in the effects loop and liked the sound I was getting but have read online this could damage the amp, does anyone know if this is correct please?

I don't know where you read that Olly but I would disregard it and never go there again!  The schematics for the TM40D are not available out here in the wild.  However the TM18 schematics are if you search for them, and the TM20 would seem to be based on that with upgrades.  The TM18, and all the other H&K amps, have well designed Fx loops with buffers on their Returns.  You would have to blast the return with a signal voltage well above a pedal's output to do damage.

If you are having trouble achieving the tones you want you could try reading this:  Understanding and using the H&K input buffer  Overdrive/Distortion is very often overused and the TM20D has this already in place if you know about it.

Hi Bordonbert

Thank you for your prompt reply, you have put my mind to rest! I read the comment on the Andertons blog.

I have read several replies from yourself to similar comments people have posted in past and now have a few things to try when I get home. I also have the TM18 30th anniversary and from what I can tell in the small amount of time I Have had the 20 they sound very similar through a HK 112 cab.

We play anything from Paloma faith to Nirvana in our covers band and I have been unsure if I should use a pedal into the clean channel or get all my drive from the amp. I get the feeling that you would use the volume control on the guitar and or a clean boost to push the amp? I guess I could use the drive channel with an EQ I like and roll the volume off to get my clean tone............will have a trial this afternoon.

Thanks again for taking your time to reply, much appreciated.

I really recommend having a read through that Input Buffer post I made when you get a couple of minutes Olly.  The H&K input stage is common to all of their TM and GM models.  It's a very neatly designed piece of electronics which gives you a high degree of flexibility in your sound, but you have to understand and know how to use it.  And you have to have the confidence to ignore "common knowledge" and a lot of internet advice.  You asked...

"I have been unsure if I should use a pedal into the clean channel or get all my drive from the amp. I get the feeling that you would use the volume control on the guitar and or a clean boost to push the amp?"

No, I don't push the amp at all, that is done by the amp itself if you use the Input Buffer in the right way.  Personally I use a GM36 and that has midi programmable level settings for each channel.  You don't have that luxury with your TM20D but you do have separate Gain and Master controls.  The trick is that the TM20D already has a pseudo-Tubescreamer built in which kicks in dependent on the signal level at the input socket.  It has no specific controls as it doesn't need them.  Your guitar or final pedal Volume control directly before the amp input and your discipline with that is the secret.

You are not feeding your input signal direct to the valves, it passes through this solid state buffer first so that determines how hard the valves are hit.  I find it much more pleasing to keep input signals right down so the input buffer is pretty much absolutely clean and to then adjust the level of distortion via the valve stages exclusively.  Others will find it better to drive the input a LITTLE harder to allow the TS action to kick in.  I also don't like too much preamp distortion, I use the Power Soak set low with the Master higher to allow the power amp to breathe.  But then I'm a classic-classic rock type of guy, not modern high gain at all so it may not suit.  However, it is a fact that too many people feel the need to set up their (overly expensive) chain of pedals with Distortion pushing Boost pushing the front end of an amp which they have set to its own high gain distortion producing mode and then they wonder why it sounds rough.  This is a rule I stick to rigidly nowadays:  "Limit your distortion mechanisms to a single one with a touch of no more than one other to trim".

I am currently playing a Yamaha SG1000 through a Fender HotRod DeVille using a Fryette Power Station PS-100 to set room levels.  I'm an old time Les Paul/Marshall player from the 60s/70s.  Granted the PS-100 makes an enormous difference to my flexibility but you have the Power Soak to get part of the way there.  The amp controls all go from 1-12, (go figure).  I have the guitar into the low gain input.  The Clean channel Volume is set on only 5-6.  The Gain channel Drive is set to about 5 with its Master on 7.  The guitar Volume is set to - - - 5!  No Overdrive or Distortion or Boost pedals in sight!

The HotRod DeVille has a reputation for being "Blaahh!" at best.  It gets that reputation from people who "know amps"    and try to force it to work by applying the rules they have learned from other more mainstream amps, or worse, from other "tone gurus" online.  Use it my way, no pedals, no boost, straight into the low gain input with those low settings and it sounds awesome.  I get classic Fender tones to die for and creamy overdrive up to hard rocking distortion as good as any of my other amps, and I have a few great ones, with no harshness at all.  Turn the guitar up to only 6 or 7 and it starts to lose that sheen of quality becoming a touch flat and harsh.  Turn the amp controls up and again it becomes a little harsher and overall "Blaahh"!  My GM36 is exactly the same for different reasons and I suspect your TM20D will be the same!

I strongly recommend you to try out simplifying your approach to your generation of distortion, hard to do after you have tossed away, errmmm, "invested" eye watering amounts on pedals, (another of my pet hates about the music industry as a designer who knows how little there is in the average pedal), and try out the H&K approach.  To do that to its best you will have to understand that input buffer and how it works and try it out for yourself.  (Read the linked thread and digest it!  )  I'd be interested to hear what you find.

You have explained it exceptionally well and am chomping at the bit to give it a go. I will feed back my findings.

I notice you are from Southern England, far enough south to be Cornish?

Thanks again.

Cornish? Oooh no-o-o, b'aint be nearly from thurs paaarts. I'm currently a little north of Portsmouth, about half way up to Guildford. But originally I hail from the far North East of England. At a time when everyone from north of Leeds seems to get described as a "Geordie", I'm a real one. I was born right on the banks of the Tyne, a few miles downstream from Newcastle at Hebburn. It's being from the banks of the Tyne that counts. Cockneys are really born within the sound of Bow Bells. Geordies are born within the smell of the old Walker boneyard!

Wherever you are from you sound like a good egg!

I am down SW as far as you could go, in fact our band as played at Lands end several times.

I have now had a chance to try the amp out again. I set the amp to 5W because our drummer has an electronic kit and our onstage volume is low.
Almost maxed the MV on the clean channel and used the gain almost like a volume control. There was a bit of breakup when playing hard but I like that more than a pristine clean.
When I added a overdrive pedal with high volume no gain it sounded good, classic rock territory, really happy
With it.
Going to fine tune it for a couple of weeks before using it live, but can’t wait to road test it now