Preset Tweaking Question

Hello,

I'm about a week away from buying a GM36 or a TM36 based on the answer to this question.  My preference is to get the GM36 and have no need for distortion pedals and have a smaller pedal board.  Let's see if I will be able to do that!

Here's the situation.

I need to be able to make a preset at home, store it, and call it up with the FSM432 MK III footswitch.  Once that preset is called up on the amp I need to be able to make adjustments to the patch based on what I'm hearing in the rehearsal.  My big question is: If I change one parameter on a patch (say turn the mids down), will all of the other parameters automatically change to what is indicated by the location of the knobs?  My only other experience with this kind of equipment is Line 6 gear and with that equipment, once one knob is changed while on a preset, all of the other knob settings automatically become active and the rest of the preset's values are lost.  If the GM36 is like this, I can't use it because it will take too long to tweak and re-save the presets at rehearsal for me.  So let me make an example:

I make a preset at home with the eq at Treble: 9 o'clock Mids: 3 o'clock Bass: 5 o'clock.  Let's call this preset "Blues"

I keep making more presets  and when I finish the eq knobs are all at 12 o'clock for Treble, Mids, and Bass.

When I'm at rehearsal I call up "Blues" and find out that I want to turn the bass down a little because it's interfering with the bass player's tone.  So I have the "Blues" preset loaded on the amp and I move the bass knob from where it is at 12 o'clock to 4 o'clock, remembering that this should be slightly less than I had made it at 5 o'clock at home.  Now, once I move the bass knob as I mentioned, will the other eq settings for Treble and Mid which happen to have knobs pointed to 12 o'clock change from the "Blues" preset levels of 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock, respectively, to 12 o'clock where the knobs are now pointed or will they remain in the original settings of 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock even though the knobs for Treble and Mid both are pointed to 12 o'clock?  Then will I be able to save the preset without adjusting all of the knobs again?

The manual and all of the demos / tutorials I watched on YouTube as well as any and all forum conversations I have read have not mentioned this very important piece of information.  If I can just tweak one knob on a preset and re-save it, that will be great; especially having a preset that has values for eq, fx loop, noise gate, and onboard fx.  That would take forever to put all of the knobs back to the correct positions and re-save it after changing one parameter.  Even with the iPad app, it would be too much time (in my opinion) to disconnect the footswitch, plug in the iPad, dial in the parameter that needs to be changed, switch back to the footswitch, and save the preset again.  

Sorry for my lack of knowledge on this.  Not being able to find a GM36 locally to test out and not being able to find the information online has made this a frustrating question for me.  Hopefully the H&K equipment is better suited for quick changes in settings than the Line 6 equipment I have used in the past (which is fine for tinkering and having fun with, but not for my style of on-the-fly use).  

Thank you for any feedback.  I look forward to working with one of these amps in the very near future.  Have a good day.

Anthony

You can do this. Each EQ is individually adjustable. The only "issue" is need to forget the concept of using clock positions should you be making adjustments to the effects like tremolo or chorus at the amp. The rotary dials rotate freely through 360 degrees in both directions. After changing presets and choosing to make an adjustment the adjustment knob will rotate and you may not initially note a perceptible change in The effect until you "land" on the position of that particular knob setting.  When that occurs the amp provides an indicator lamp. Once the lamp is lit you have found the initial  position. From there the value can be adjusted by rotating the knob.

I know this may seem confusing, but it's really quite simple when operating.

ALTERNATIVELY a simpler solution as you mentioned is the iPad app which allows you to see all values and make adjustments via an all-in-one view.  Saving the new tone is a simple matter for the ap or the foot switch.   You simply tweak and then save.

If you get a chance check out this video to see what I mean. Just pay attention to how Josh Rand is rotating the knobs left and right. At 3:39 you will see the blinking which means the value is adjustable. At around 3:45 he makes a flange adjustment.  You'll note the solid lamp indicating the found the initial value.  He then tweaks from there.  

I hope this helps.

I neglected to mention that once you find your new tone you simply save over your existing patch or create a new one if you like which can be done from the foot switch or app.

Thank you for getting back to me on that.  I watched that video series, but my question went unanswered.  I think I can put it a better way.

When I call up a preset the sound I hear won't necessarily correlate to the position of the knobs because that's how the amp is designed.  So if I change one knob the sound will change, but only that one knob that I moved will correlate with the sound that I am now hearing, correct?  So if I save the sound I am now hearing, will it save a preset that correlates to the sound I'm hearing or to the position of all of the knobs where they are whether or not they correlate to the sound I'm hearing?  Thanks again.  This is going to be a big deal to me when I buy an amp so I want to make sure I do it right the first time!

If that's still too theoretical, here's a straightforward way to say it.  Lets say none of the knobs are in the same position I had them in when I made a preset.  I call up the preset, decide the bass is too high, want to turn it down by listening to it and playing a chord until it sounds the way I want. Once I touch that bass knob and move it, will only the bass level change or will EVERYTHING change to match the current position of the knobs?  

Again if this sounds dumb, it's only because the Line 6 equipment I've owned will change from preset information once one knob is changed to what the amp will sound like with all of the knobs in their current position.  That makes it unusable for me in a live situation.

dalandser wrote:When I call up a preset the sound I hear won't necessarily correlate to the position of the knobs because that's how the amp is designed.  So if I change one knob the sound will change, but only that one knob that I moved will correlate with the sound that I am now hearing, correct?  So if I save the sound I am now hearing, will it save a preset that correlates to the sound I'm hearing or to the position of all of the knobs where they are whether or not they correlate to the sound I'm hearing?  Thanks again.  This is going to be a big deal to me when I buy an amp so I want to make sure I do it right the first time!

It will correlate to the sound you are hearing, not necessarily to the current position of all the knobs.

gravydb wrote:

dalandser wrote:When I call up a preset the sound I hear won't necessarily correlate to the position of the knobs because that's how the amp is designed.  So if I change one knob the sound will change, but only that one knob that I moved will correlate with the sound that I am now hearing, correct?  So if I save the sound I am now hearing, will it save a preset that correlates to the sound I'm hearing or to the position of all of the knobs where they are whether or not they correlate to the sound I'm hearing?  Thanks again.  This is going to be a big deal to me when I buy an amp so I want to make sure I do it right the first time!

It will correlate to the sound you are hearing, not necessarily to the current position of all the knobs.

Thank you!  I think this makes it usable for me live.  I'm pretty good at quickly dialing in things so I could make a quick change and save it again and be good to go yeah?

Do you find yourself having to make quick adjustments like this from one venue / cab to the next?  Do you find that the volume level between patches / channels stays pretty consistent to your ear going from one place to the next?  EQ and volume settings are probably my biggest concern, but of course all of the parameters have to be perfect to make it sound the way I want to hear in my head.  I know that the amp won't be changing the settings, but the room and other variables could affect these things.  It probably doesn't help that I'm playing live for the first time with this kind of equipment in a situation where I need a lot of tones from clean to completely saturated and everything in between along with complex parts going between drastically different settings.  I've been playing guitar for a long time (11 years), but this is all new to me.  I'm excited to start trying it out though and want to make it work so we can make the live sets sound as much like studio recordings as possible (not boring, but textured and varied).

That's one of the compromises I had to make with the GM... since the EQ settings are part of the preset, it's not easy making 'on the fly' adjustments. I use about 5 banks of presets throughout a given show, and so if I decided I want more bass at a certain venue, , I'd have to save that change to quite a few presets. Not impossible but not really practical either.

I'll share my approach with ya... I've owned my GM for about a year and a half now, but it didn't see any real life (live) use until just a couple months ago. Of course all the presets that I had labored over at home did not sound ideal in an actual live band environment. I was chasing my tail for a little while until I had a bit of an epiphany (tempered with some critical advice from this forum)... the first thing was lowering the amp's wattage from 36 to 18, this immediately and drastically improved the amp's tone. Also, since the treb/mid/bass knobs don't have very much range, I decided to put them at noon with the theory that this is probably the 'default H&K sound'. I truly believe that is the case. Lastly, I put the pres/res controls into 'global mode' (look that up in the manual) which means they are independent of the presets. Those are the knobs I tweak per venue needs.

Granted I'm still on the learning curve but so far I am very very happy with how the GM is performing at live shows. It's spectacular actually

That's great thank you.  I read the whole manual and remember the resonance and presence controls being able to be set like that.  Having multiple banks of similar yet slightly tweaked presets also sounds like a really good idea.  The 18 watt setting has been mentioned a lot in what  I've been reading too.  That's good because I was thinking of getting a used TM18 for a backup so I could play a show with at least the basics if I needed to with my pedal board for any reason that might come up.  It could just sit in the back of my truck behind the seat and come to the rescue if needed.  

Do the presence and resonance controls have a really big effect on the tone?  I'm familiar with presence control and I know how it can really make things feel easier to play, but still cut through when it's dialed in just enough.  If they ever put this amp in a chassis that has at least the dedicated eq, volume, and gain controls for each channel it will be the ultimate amp that I can think of considering all of the other things it can do.

Does the master volume seem to be friendly towards keeping the volumes on different presets equal with each other throughout it's usable volumes (not extremely quiet to extremely loud, but from say a rehearsal space to a decent size club where you'd have to add some volume).

I think the pres/res controls aren't as subtle as the treb/mid/bass controls, but that's just my perception. I've only gigged the GM twice so far, both shows were at the same venue, and for now I've left all 5 tone controls at noon, and I'm very pleased with how it sounds in the context of a full band. Sooner or later I'll start tweaking again but honestly I'm content to just leave things be for now. It seems crazy, all the hours I had spent at home scrutinizing and adjusting were for naught, and I've gotten the best results by setting the eq at noon? It seems ridiculous! But it is what it is, I can't argue it.

I use the channel volume to strike the right relative volumes per presets (solo patch is slightly louder than the other patches, etc), and the I use the master volume as, well, a master volume! I set it to whatever seems like the right overall volume for the scenario, and then all my presets have the right relative volume to each other. If that makes any sense? Putting the amp into a live scenario as often as possible is really important as far as getting it tweaked properly. There is only so much you can do at home, and often my best guesses are incorrect. But during a live show I make several mental notes and then tweak as needed. It won't be long before I have it just right.

Something for a couple more people to try to see if it's just me.

Try setting your mid control at max, then adjust the treble from lowest to highest. In my case no bloody difference really! Now set the mid control to min and try again with the full range of treble. All of a sudden I find that the treble makes a difference. I don't find the same thing works with the bass. It's very odd!

I can't help thinking that the tone controls are set up to have a large and unusual overlap. If your mid control lifts a plateau up into the treble too, rather than just a peak around one point, then the treble control may well be overpowered a little. It would be interesting to see what circuit configuration they have used. It may only be a gut thing but it feels more like it is a cut/boost set up as in a Baxandall rather than just plain cut like a classic tonestack. The addition of a swept mid to a Baxandall setup can be awkward to get balanced with the other two controls!

Bordonbert - I just tried it. I note a VERY slight almost imperceptible Treble difference when the Mid is pegged at max.