Behringer FCB 1010 and GM 40 Deluxe?

Sorry if this sounds like a silly question, but I could not work it out from the documentation.

Am thinking of moving up to the GM 40 deluxe because of sound quality and also midi functionality - as I have a rack effects unit in addition to what the GM 40 provides. I notice that the default midi setup is 32 banks of 4 sounds. I already own BEHringer fcb1010 which operates in banks of 10 which I am quite used to for the way I work across multiple covers bands . Is the 32x4 setup fixed or can I still use banks of 10 from the FCB1010?


Many Thanks

W

The 32/4 setup is only the default setup if you use the Hughes&Kettner FSM 432 MKIII as it has the up and down switch to change the bank and the A, B, C and D switch for the preset. Actually it sends program changes to the amp to change the presets. You just need to send the program change (0 ... 127) via MIDI to change the amp's preset.
According to the manual the Behringer FCB1010 can do that.

I recommend to prepare the presets with an USB MIDI interface and an app that provides you access to all parameters. There is a free windows app available under:

http://ctrlr.org/hughes-kettner-grandmeister-36/

You can edit the presets on you PC, store them in the amp and select them with you FCB1010.

Thank you for the very clear reply. I understand completely, and it greatly helps my decison to purchase.Does the app access some paramaters that are not available from the GM 40 front panel?

"and an app that provides you access to all parameters"

Regards

Warren

Well, you have access to parameters like powersoak, global powersoak etc. which you don't have on the front panel. And you have DIRECT access to those parameters that you can only edit at the amp, if you press 'FX ACCESS'.

And you don't have to read out the stored knob settings by turning the knob until the light flashes. You see them directly in the app including the values (0...100 % respectively 0...255 MIDI digits).

And you can store literally an unlimited amount of presets on you computer to load them into the amp if you need them.

Regards
Heinz

So you are saying here that if I download that HK software exe on my PC and hook the head up to the FCB1010 with a USB to Midi adapter I can program the head with the pedal board to do whatever I want it to do? Preset mode and stomp box modes via the banks I want to set up on the FCB? Because it's that is the case, that is a godsend!!

I have the WM1 and the FSM but they are only useful to me for home really.
I also need to add a TC Electronics G-Force into the loop for some other effects I need live that the amp can't give me.

Hendock wrote:The 32/4 setup is only the default setup if you use the Hughes&Kettner FSM 432 MKIII as it has the up and down switch to change the bank and the A, B, C and D switch for the preset. Actually it sends program changes to the amp to change the presets. You just need to send the program change (0 ... 127) via MIDI to change the amp's preset.
According to the manual the Behringer FCB1010 can do that.

I recommend to prepare the presets with an USB MIDI interface and an app that provides you access to all parameters. There is a free windows app available under:

http://ctrlr.org/hughes-kettner-grandmeister-36/

You can edit the presets on you PC, store them in the amp and select them with you FCB1010.

GuitargutsMD wrote:So you are saying here that if I download that HK software exe on my PC and hook the head up to the FCB1010 with a USB to Midi adapter I can program the head with the pedal board to do whatever I want it to do? Preset mode and stomp box modes via the banks I want to set up on the FCB? Because it's that is the case, that is a godsend!!

I have the WM1 and the FSM but they are only useful to me for home really.
I also need to add a TC Electronics G-Force into the loop for some other effects I need live that the amp can't give me.

If you already use the WM1 along with an iPad you've got no extra benefit from using the software with an USB to Midi adapter. It's quite the same. And you can use EITHER preset mode OR stomp box mode, not both at once, I'm afraid.

My recommendation to Egnator2 was to setup his presets at home via the software and to use the FCB1010 for additional effects AND to switch the presets.

In your case I would use the FSM to switch the presets of the amp AND the presets of the G-Force (via Midi-Through).

I use the Behringer FCB1010 with my Grandmeisters. Works fine, right out of the box. I sync it with a TC G Major, and have one button change everything for me. Very simple, easy to use setup indeed.

I prefer it to the FSM switches, as I like to have 10 options in front of me instead of 4 without switching banks. I also use 40 presets a night, with varying levels of gain and fx for each channel. It takes me about 2-3 hours to dial in the sounds, and midi-mapping. Once it's done though, I rarely change anything again. So, one initial time investment for years of gigging.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

bish0p34 wrote:I use the Behringer FCB1010 with my Grandmeisters. Works fine, right out of the box. I sync it with a TC G Major, and have one button change everything for me. Very simple, easy to use setup indeed.

I prefer it to the FSM switches, as I like to have 10 options in front of me instead of 4 without switching banks. I also use 40 presets a night, with varying levels of gain and fx for each channel. It takes me about 2-3 hours to dial in the sounds, and midi-mapping. Once it's done though, I rarely change anything again. So, one initial time investment for years of gigging.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Hey bish0p34!  I'll bite because I have questions.  So I'm trying to control an H&K GMD40 with the FCB1010 and I can't get 'em talking yet.  
For curiosity, I connected my WMI-1 to the amp and controlled it with my iPad app.  
The channels switch fine when I'm controlling the amp with the app.
With the WMI-1 connected, I looked at the MIDI messages coming out of the amp's MIDI OUT/THRU using Midi Ox.

Midi Ox shows a program switch and some "system exclusive" SYSX bytes coming out of the amp's MIDI OUT/THRU (so coming from the WMI-1) (see below image):


However, the FCB1010, when using the footswitches (and the amp won't respond to this), is sending the following:


Are those SYSEX messages necessary?  Did you get your FCB1010 to send something like that?

I don't know the specifics, hopefully Bish0p34 will be back in and share his experience and expertise in this, but I can at least say "yes" Sysex messages are absolutely a requirement of any controller which works with the H&K amps. MIDI normally works with fixed sized packets of data. When large amounts of data need to be swapped this can be restricting. Sysex was brought in to be a way of swapping large data blocks as a larger user defined packet. Controllers which do not support Sysex and talk with fixed small packet sizes cannot respond to the H&K messages containing larger blocks of data.

Here is some info from a site I found, Indiana State Music.

Indiana State Music wrote:The majority of MIDI communication consists of multi-byte packets beginning with a status byte followed by one or two data bytes. Bytes are packets of 8 bits (0's or 1's—a '1' is called set and a '0' is called reset). Status bytes begin with a '1' as their most significant bit e.g. 1xxx xxxx, and are therefore 128 decimal or higher. Data bytes begin with a '0' e.g. 0xxx xxxx, and are therefore 127 decimal or lower. Each byte is surrounded by a start bit and a stop bit, making each packet 10 bits long.

System Exclusive: Originally used only for manufacturer-specific codes (each MMA member manufacturer was given specific ID codes), such as editor/librarians, this class has been expanded to include MIDI Time Code, MIDI Sample Dump Standard and MIDI Machine Control. These messages can be as long as is needed, before being ended by an EOX end-of-system-exclusive byte.

(That may mean something to you or not, it is only for interest.)

CapedSam wrote:

bish0p34 wrote:I use the Behringer FCB1010 with my Grandmeisters. Works fine, right out of the box. I sync it with a TC G Major, and have one button change everything for me. Very simple, easy to use setup indeed.

I prefer it to the FSM switches, as I like to have 10 options in front of me instead of 4 without switching banks. I also use 40 presets a night, with varying levels of gain and fx for each channel. It takes me about 2-3 hours to dial in the sounds, and midi-mapping. Once it's done though, I rarely change anything again. So, one initial time investment for years of gigging.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Hey bish0p34!  I'll bite because I have questions.  So I'm trying to control an H&K GMD40 with the FCB1010 and I can't get 'em talking yet.  
For curiosity, I connected my WMI-1 to the amp and controlled it with my iPad app.  
The channels switch fine when I'm controlling the amp with the app.
With the WMI-1 connected, I looked at the MIDI messages coming out of the amp's MIDI OUT/THRU using Midi Ox.

Midi Ox shows a program switch and some "system exclusive" SYSX bytes coming out of the amp's MIDI OUT/THRU (so coming from the WMI-1) (see below image):


However, the FCB1010, when using the footswitches (and the amp won't respond to this), is sending the following:


Are those SYSEX messages necessary?  Did you get your FCB1010 to send something like that?

O.k. I think I answered my own question.
It turns out the Behringer wasn't making the amp switch when the HKGM40D was set to "omni" mode, but when I changed it to channel 1 it worked.
Note that I could only get this to work when the WMI-1 is not being used. It seems that the Behringer's signal does not pass through the WMI-1.

Looking at your posted screen shots of the messages sent by the amp and by the controller.  At first it looked like there was something wrong to my inexperienced eye, (I do know programming code and general data very well but I have no real specific experience with MIDI).  Then after a little thought they look right.

Let's take the set you numbered "2" which I understand are from the GM40D itself.  The GM40D can be seen to be the primary unit in the chain as it alone stores the presets inside itself and makes changes to them and its own controls.  It alone reads all of the info concerning them from its own memory.  Other devices connected to it only instruct it as to what changes they want to be made and the amp alone changes things inside its own setup and memory in response to those commands.  That is relevant when we look at the differences in messages you show from each device.

It starts with a "FE" message.  These are a kind of polling message which should be sent around every 300ms.  Devices can pick this up to be sure the controller comms are still active.  It's kind of like shouting "anyone who is listening out there, I'm still active here".

The next is a "C0" which is a standard MIDI "Program Change" message.  They start with "C" and then ADD ON THE CHANNEL NUMBER MINUS 1! (i.e. C3 means channel 4.)  That looks like your amp is set to channel 1 just as you say.  It looks like this is to inform any devices in the loop that a new preset selection update is on the way.  The "01" which follows is the number of the preset you are selecting.  The SysEx message which follows that is indicated by the "F0" message code.  It says it contains 47 bytes of data which is correct.  These should encompass the new setup of each control and function for the new preset.  Your Behringer controller then updates its own record of where the amp's controls are set based on that. Your controller does not store a list of all the presets and their current settings, it only responds to this message each time to update its current control settings so you could alter them individually if you set it up to do so. Other than that it only has a list of each preset by name and number.

You then have the output from your Behringer. This is only a series of "C0" program change messages exactly like the line out of the amp's output. Look at the matching "Brite Acoustic Piano" #2 line.

This "C0" program change message tells the amp to simply select preset "01".  There is no need for any other data to be sent to the amp as it has all the info it needs about how to set up the preset selection in its own memory.

In the same way you could set up most controllers to control selected functions of the amp individually. Turning the Boost function on or off for example. These will send a "Bn" (n is again the channel number minus 1, 0-15) control change message with the new value for that control and its new setting following it. For example, 21 is the number for the Bass control and its setting would be anything between 0-127 (I think).

That looks pretty straight up to me.  Maybe someone who knows their MIDI better than I do can spot something out of kilter there.  That was a good post to make and showed a lot.