Transferring files from PC to grandmeister Delux 40

Hi guys,
Sorry for the newbie question, but I just purchased my H&K GM 40 watt amp.  I hooked up my Mac to the amp,  I can control the amp via midi, but how do I send the patches that came with the application over to my Amp? I tried and can't figure it out?

Hi Antonio.  Don't worry everyone is a newbie at some stage.

I'm using the "Black Spirit 200 Remote" version of the app.  It's a while since I've used my GM36 with PC/Mac control, (I'm a PC man myself).  I don't have my GM36 set up to show me this first hand but it looks as though you could do this.  Select "Amp" -> [Backup] in the bottom right.  I would guess this would ask for the location on your Mac to Save to then you can Load that directly into the app.

Apologies if this is completely wrong.  Does it make sense with the Mac app version?



EDIT: Doooohhh! I've just reread your question and I got it arse about face! If you have your patches loaded up in the app on your Mac then just use the "Library" -> [Send To Amp] button in the bottom right corner.

Hi Bordonbert, Thanks for the input much appreciated. I believe I did that. I even popped up the midi viewer, and noticed that it kept send packets of the first patch they supply with the app, but it kept on refreshing and never went on to the second patch. I also run a virtual Windows 10 on my mac. Maybe I'll try the Windows version. What's strange everything else works fine? Thanks again, this is driving me crazy because it should be an easy task.
Note I'm using a cheap USB to Midi in/out connection, and only using the MIDI in because the foot pedal is on the the other port.

Oh BTW Bordonbert, I've been to Newcastle and Birmingham so many times due to work, love it there man and the people.

Antonio wrote:Note . . . I'm using a cheap USB to Midi in/out connection. . . , and only using the MIDI in because the foot pedal is on the the other port.

AHA!  I think that might be a pointer to your problem.  In MIDI there is a concept called SYSEX messaging, that is System Exclusive.  Your MIDI device must support Sysex transfer to be able to send the data through.  Standard MIDI uses small packets of fixed size which will hold a limited amount of data.  The data needing to be sent for a complete patch is too large to fit into a single packet and in MIDI it can't span multiple ones.  Sysex allows for customised larger packet sizes but the downsize is that the hardware buffers in each device must be big enough to hold that packet size while it is being sent or received.  That means extra components and cost so cheaper interfaces do not go that far.  I started in exactly the same way as you seem to have done.  I bought a cheap Chinese MIDI interface on fleabay in order to try out the amp control before I invested in something better.  It was a non-starter for some of the things we need of course!

See if you can find the spec of your interface or let us know the model here and look to see if it supports Sysex transfer.  Maybe even a quick pic if it is an obscure nondescript type.  There is usually some identification available as indecipherable long numbers on a tag somewhere on the outside.  If it doesn't support Sysex you will not be able to send and receive the large blocks of data you need to for a full patch transfer.

The amp should currently be loaded with its own patches of course.  Remember, the patch set which is actually applied and played is stored on the amp not in the MIDI controller.  Selecting a particular patch only sends a single command with just the number in the set to select on the amp.  This would be a PC (Program Change) message with something like the Patch Number (0-127) and the MIDI Channel.  The changes for the control settings are CC (Control Change) messages. These have the CC Number for the Control, the new Value and the MIDI Channel.  The system sorts out which type of message it is sending or receiving.  You may be able to recognise these with the MIDI monitor on the app.

Just out of curiosity, can you select patch numbers individually from the app to the amp?  For example, if you select a different patch on the app do the settings on the amp change to show it is now on a different patch from its own set?  I wouldn't expect these to be matching in their individual settings at the moment, it's just to see if the amp responds to a PC program change message as it should.  I think the fact that you have an app which can load up its own set does not mean that the app and amp will be in sync as regards the individual patches, but when patch 35 say is selected on the app I would hope the amp responds by selecting patch 35 from its own set.


And yes, I'm a true Geordie born and bred from Hebburn.  But I have lived for a long long time in the South.  Still visit family up there from time to time but working there wasn't really an option for me.  Glad to hear you like it up there, they really are lovely people and life is very relaxed.     (Even if the football is now dire throughout the whole region!)  

Just out of interest, you could have a look here in the H&K Tone Blog.  H&K Tone Blog

There is a lot of useful info in the blog section and some discussion involving Sysex transfer in the replies.  Here is one example (which isn't exactly the same as your own situation so don't worry about mention of the MIDI Thru box):

H&K Support Team wrote:Hi Richard,

You’re absolutely right: the GM40’s Out/Thru is not a true MIDI thru: actually, it blocks MIDI sysex information.

Why does it do this? Well, this is the only way it’s possible to use apps and editors in combination with standard MIDI interfaces. Apps and editors need a bi-directional MIDI communication, and the app and editors send MIDI Sys Ex to the amp and receive standard PC and CC commands from the amp. Only in this way can you avoid a so-called “MIDI loop”, otherwise any command would lead to a “MIDI crash” as it would go round and round again until you interrupt the MIDI chain.

So a MIDI Thru box is the solution!

All the best,

Team H&K

Note that bit which says "the app and editors send MIDI Sys Ex to the amp and receive standard PC and CC commands from the amp".  Interesting to note it is only in one direction.

Hi Bordonbert,
Thanks for sticking in there for me.  So, over the weekend I still couldn't manage to get it running. I’m struggling in my head that there’s got to be something wrong with that portion of the amp’s circuitry.  I’m going to try to contact H&K support this week, hopefully it’s slow and I can call in from the States.
Your Questions
“See if you can find the spec of your interface or let us know the model here and look to see if it supports Sysex transfer”   So cheap not even any information or website.
“The amp should currently be loaded with its own patches of course”  No patches were loaded, I even did a factory reset.
“Just out of curiosity, can you select patch numbers individually from the app to the amp?”   Yes, I can change patches from the PC and have it change on the amp.
“Interesting to note it is only in one direction”  Yes, only one direction.  I’m using the MIDI IN on the amp.  I’m wounder if I can connect my MIDI connection from my AMP to a keyboard that has a MIDI Through, then connect it to the PC.  It should assign MIDI channels.  I’ll try this tonight.    
Again, thanks for all your help! Happy Holidays!

“The amp should currently be loaded with its own patches of course”  No patches were loaded, I even did a factory reset.

But the amp comes with a factory default patch set.  You can find it here:  GM40 Factory Default Patch Set.  When you do your factory reset it should take them back to this and you lose any of your own which you have programmed in over these ones.  When you are changing presets on the app you are seeing the settings for the app's version of that patch. The amp is responding to the change but it is selecting the appropriate one from its own list which should be that default one at the moment.  The problem is that the settings for Patch 35 (say) on the app do not match up with those for Patch 35 on the amp.  But you are getting Patch 35 selected on the amp just as you should.  That requires only a simple short MIDI PC message to be sent not involving that Sysex protocol.  However when you try to send a new definition of a whole patch, that means the values for every one of the settings for the controls wrapped up in one message, it then becomes a lot longer and the cheap MIDI interface cannot handle that message length. MIDI is very old and primitive. It is still in use because, although it creaks and moans, it still does the job.

I still think your problem is that Sysex transfer.  If your MIDI interface is a cheap one just as mine was then it won't support that and it is essential for your GM40D to work with full patches and patch sets.  All you are seeing at the moment is individual bog standard PC and CC messages being sent.  Mine did exactly the same thing with my own cheap interface and as soon as I switched to a better quality one it just came to life and worked.

Do you know anyone who has a better MIDI interface you could try this out with?