NOOB midi question. Can I use a Midi to USB cable ?

I've never used midi before.
Can I just buy a simple midi to usb cable, connect to my pc and use the software or do I need to buy an interface?
I just sold my focusrite before getting the amp.
Didn't think I would need it.

Colin

Yes usb to midi work right with the amp app

It's not as simple as that. The "USB one end, MIDI the other" cable is actually an interface in itself. It has to be to convert the two MIDI signal streams into the single USB stream and that requires electronics. You should have a standard USB connector on one end and two 5 pin DIN connectors, one for sending data and one for receiving it, on the other.

You must be careful which interface you buy as not all will work with the H&K amps. Original MIDI is a very old technology but it still does the job well. Over the years it has had improvements and additions to suit more advanced devices which have become available. One of these is SYSEX, "SYS-tem EX-clusive", messages designed to permit custom data block sizes to be swapped. Originally MIDI data was sent in packets of a specific size. Now we sometimes need to pass larger amounts of data and the packet size is a restriction as to how easily we can do that. SYSEX was developed to allow packets to be defined as blocks of data of whatever size we want by the specific system we are using the interface in. The H&K amps and apps MUST have an interface which supports SYSEX data transfer to work correctly.

There is no requirement to pay a fortune for an advanced MIDI interface, cheaper alternatives will do the job just as well as long as they support SYSEX. I can find some available from about £15 upwards (though there is no immediate info about whether they support SYSEX). However, cheap Chinese interfaces from ebay definitely do not all support SYSEX so be careful which one you buy. I would recommend something a little above that to be sure. (Ask me how I know that! ) Once you have an interface which does support it, the rest should be plug and play with a few options to set in the app settings.

This one looks as though it will do the job and I have had it confirmed that it supports SYSEX data transfer.

Tie Studio Midi 1i1o

The 1i1o implies "1 line in and 1 line out". You do get other units which can work with more than one line in and/or out but for the H&K setup 1i1o is all you would need. I'm not recommending that unit or that outlet in particular, just showing that you can get very cheap interfaces which do the basic job perfectly well nowadays.

Anyone know and used this unit?

Hi,

I use a M-Audio Midisport UNO cable to connect my GM40D + FSM-432 to H&K Remote V1.0 on a windows 10 computer.

I face sometime difficulties to store patch from app to amp or to toggle amp/librarie, and maybe it is due to a wrong connection?

Today I use the 7 pin midi cable to link the GM40D midi in to FSM-432 midi out, then the "to midi in" UNO 5 pin cable to FSM-432 midi in, and "to midi out" UNO 5 pin cable to GM40D midi out/thru. The UNO USB for sure is plugged to computer.

Is it the right way to plug the uno cable?

Thanks, Philippe

That sounds correct Fificap.  Are you sure you don't have a faulty cable somewhere?  Looking at pics of the Uno I can't see how the two midi cables are identified.  Are you sure you have these the correct way round with the MIDI out, (I think the one you describe as "to MIDI in"), into the FSM432?

Here is a link to the H&K video of them setting up a GM36 with an iPad.  iPad app setup.  The connections are not too clear but if you stop the video at just the right time you can see it is effectively the same connection as you should be using.  Your Uno takes the place of the iRig.  They have the iRig Out going to the FSM432 and the iRig In coming from the GM36.

The FSM432 is really just a dumb set of switches which converts its own switch presses to MIDI commands and passes them, along with the commands you send from the app on the PC, through to the GM36.  It does not keep a set of presets stored in itself, it only tells the GM40D which of the amp's presets to select from inside itself or which control to modify.  The amp then responds to any FSM432 commands from its own internal setup and passes the commands in turn, along with any of its own, to the app.  The closed MIDI loop should take care of all three units having all the information they need from every other unit at all times.  That is if they are listening on the right channels.

Have you checked that you have a specific channel matching the Uno selected on the GM36?  It is generally better to do that than to leave it on an Omni-channel setting.  Have a look at section 8 in the manual.  Then make sure the app has the correct devices/channels chosen for both Input, Controller and Output signals in its MIDI menu.  If you generally have things working then I would think you may have this all set up correctly already but it can't hurt to check it one more time.

As a last resort you could try making sure you have any presets in the amp stored on your PC and then doing a factory reset before setting up the MIDI again and downloading the presets back onto the amp.  BEWARE!!!  All opf the amp's presets will be wiped out if you perform a factory reset so make sure you have any that you want to keep stored off the amp first.  You will only get one chance at that.  (Ask me how I know!!! )

bordonbert wrote:That sounds correct Fificap.  Are you sure you don't have a faulty cable somewhere?  Looking at pics of the Uno I can't see how the two midi cables are identified.  Are you sure you have these the correct way round with the MIDI out, (I think the one you describe as "to MIDI in"), into the FSM432?

Here is a link to the H&K video of them setting up a GM36 with an iPad.  iPad app setup.  The connections are not too clear but if you stop the video at just the right time you can see it is effectively the same connection as you should be using.  Your Uno takes the place of the iRig.  They have the iRig Out going to the FSM432 and the iRig In coming from the GM36.

The FSM432 is really just a dumb set of switches which converts its own switch presses to MIDI commands and passes them, along with the commands you send from the app on the PC, through to the GM36.  It does not keep a set of presets stored in itself, it only tells the GM40D which of the amp's presets to select from inside itself or which control to modify.  The amp then responds to any FSM432 commands from its own internal setup and passes the commands in turn, along with any of its own, to the app.  The closed MIDI loop should take care of all three units having all the information they need from every other unit at all times.  That is if they are listening on the right channels.

Have you checked that you have a specific channel matching the Uno selected on the GM36?  It is generally better to do that than to leave it on an Omni-channel setting.  Have a look at section 8 in the manual.  Then make sure the app has the correct devices/channels chosen for both Input, Controller and Output signals in its MIDI menu.  If you generally have things working then I would think you may have this all set up correctly already but it can't hurt to check it one more time.

As a last resort you could try making sure you have any presets in the amp stored on your PC and then doing a factory reset before setting up the MIDI again and downloading the presets back onto the amp.  BEWARE!!!  All opf the amp's presets will be wiped out if you perform a factory reset so make sure you have any that you want to keep stored off the amp first.  You will only get one chance at that.  (Ask me how I know!!! )

Hi,

The midi cables of the UNO interface are identified directly on each connector with labels "To  Midi In" and 'To Midi Out"


I will double check the midi channel setting and do some tests again, now that all my preset are lost! Effectively I made  a backup of all presets, or I thought I've made it, then performed a factory reset and then when I restored them, it was just the default library...
I think i missed up with the library/external switch when I made the backup.
In the mean time I ordered a second hand Ipad mini 4 that I hope to receive soon. I hope that the combinason of WMI-1 and Ipad app is more stable !

That would seem to sort out the wiring then Phillipe.  It looks to me as though you have things wired correctly.  Do make sure you have the channel settings just as you think they are.  I suspect with MIDI that it is possible to have the system working but not quite at its best.  We must remember MIDI is actually very old technology which is very out of date now, even though it is still used extensively because it simply still manages to do what is needed.  I have to admit I don't use the app nowadays as much as I should so I'm not really an expert on its use in any way.  Maybe there is someone out there who uses the app regularly who can confirm that this is not a common problem?

That is really bad news about your presets.  If you need cheering up at all then look on the bright side, you will never make that mistake again!  (I always seem to say this nowadays but "ask me how I know that"!!!   )  One thing I would suggest you look into just for better understanding of what is going on is that, originally the app saved your presets to a unique file format with its own format designator.  I think it was 'filename.GM36memory'.  When H&K brought out the Apple version of the app they chose to use Apple's own version of xml which is in a binary format and could not be read by anything other than the app or specialist software.  Fortunately Fredo is wiser than Apple.  In his Windows version the saved file, even though it had a 'filename.GM36' format name was actually no more than a text file with human readable data inside it and was very logical to look into.

If you need to know whether your file has been saved correctly then just try to open it with Notepad.  I would be careful using other more advanced applications such as Wordpad or Word as they can save simple text files with altered carriage return [CR] and linefeed [LF] characters at the end of each line and that will confuse the app and make the file unreadable to it.  You don't even see this as those characters are invisible to us.  Another general tip here is that a better app is available for all your basic text file needs.  Search for "NOTEPAD++".  This is an excellent piece of software, it's free, and it goes way beyond what Notepad can do.  It makes sure to not screw with things like the [CR] [LF] settings in the file.

Just one thing that occurred to me.  Which version of the app are you using?  Is it Version 1.0.0 of the "Black Spirit 200 Remote" app or are you on the older original "Grandmeister" version?

Just out of interest here is what you will see inside one of the preset files. I have just generated it from the default presets in the BS200 version of the app. You can see how simply the data is stored. The GM36 and GM40D used the same basic system but with a slightly different set of fields inside each [preset] block.

[preset]
number=1
name=CLEAN
modIntensity=0
sagging=108
delayTime=0
channelType=0
noiseGateLevel=162
noiseGate=0
channelBoost=0
bass=185
mid=156
treble=163
modType=0
resonance=205
cabinetType=36
presence=123
volume=169
fxLoop=0
modulationStatus=0
delayFeedback=0
reverbStatus=127
delayLevel=0
gain=230
reverb=74
delayStatus=0
[preset]
number=2
name=CRUNCH
modIntensity=0
sagging=180
delayTime=0
channelType=42
noiseGateLevel=0
noiseGate=0
channelBoost=127
bass=164
mid=184
treble=194
modType=0
resonance=178
cabinetType=108
presence=187
volume=186
fxLoop=0
modulationStatus=0
delayFeedback=0
reverbStatus=127
delayLevel=0
gain=164
reverb=74
delayStatus=0
[preset]
number=3

etc...

This has just come in on another thread from the author of the Windows app, Fredo.

Try the instructions here

Have a look at post No 214.  I wonder if this might help.

Thanks for all the replies all. Finally getting at this. I ordered a Roland UM-ONE-MK2 One in Two Out Midi Cable. Hopefully I can get it working.

Hopefully you won't have any problems setting the system up. You should only have to set up the MIDI channel on the GM40D and then define the devices and channels in the app MIDI menu. Let us know how you get on with it, it's always nice to hear that something was sorted.

bordonbert wrote:That would seem to sort out the wiring then Phillipe.  It looks to me as though you have things wired correctly.  Do make sure you have the channel settings just as you think they are.  I suspect with MIDI that it is possible to have the system working but not quite at its best.  We must remember MIDI is actually very old technology which is very out of date now, even though it is still used extensively because it simply still manages to do what is needed.  I have to admit I don't use the app nowadays as much as I should so I'm not really an expert on its use in any way.  Maybe there is someone out there who uses the app regularly who can confirm that this is not a common problem?

That is really bad news about your presets.  If you need cheering up at all then look on the bright side, you will never make that mistake again!  (I always seem to say this nowadays but "ask me how I know that"!!!   )  One thing I would suggest you look into just for better understanding of what is going on is that, originally the app saved your presets to a unique file format with its own format designator.  I think it was 'filename.GM36memory'.  When H&K brought out the Apple version of the app they chose to use Apple's own version of xml which is in a binary format and could not be read by anything other than the app or specialist software.  Fortunately Fredo is wiser than Apple.  In his Windows version the saved file, even though it had a 'filename.GM36' format name was actually no more than a text file with human readable data inside it and was very logical to look into.

If you need to know whether your file has been saved correctly then just try to open it with Notepad.  I would be careful using other more advanced applications such as Wordpad or Word as they can save simple text files with altered carriage return [CR] and linefeed [LF] characters at the end of each line and that will confuse the app and make the file unreadable to it.  You don't even see this as those characters are invisible to us.  Another general tip here is that a better app is available for all your basic text file needs.  Search for "NOTEPAD++".  This is an excellent piece of software, it's free, and it goes way beyond what Notepad can do.  It makes sure to not screw with things like the [CR] [LF] settings in the file.

Just one thing that occurred to me.  Which version of the app are you using?  Is it Version 1.0.0 of the "Black Spirit 200 Remote" app or are you on the older original "Grandmeister" version?

Hi,  Sorry for late reply, and thanks for your help.

In a mess:

- Yes I use the last version Hughes & Kettner Remote – v1.0; and using the workaround it is working to connnect and recognize properly the Grandmeister (but I have to quit the app and relaunch it before connecting the amp).

- Thanks for the file trick. I'll see when I will have some time how to convert it in a "printable" memo version ; presenting the main setup of each patch. Or maybe there's already an existing tool do it?

- I think that I better understand the logic behind the library management; which is a little disappointed for me. Basicaly you cannot manage patchs one by one between amp and library but you have to backup the full list of patch then eventually manage the patchs in the library created by the backup, then restore to amp the entire library. I do not achieve to load only one particular patch from one library to the amp.

- As I own the WMI-1 interface, I bought a used ipad mini 4 (not only for the amp but also to use it with my quadcopter drone from Hubsan); and it work great with the official app, very stable. I prefere it to be able to quickly dial or check my preset wirelessly, standing in playing position, not to close to the cab & amp. I was able to dial 5 banks of preset that match my basic needs to replace my heavy DSL40CR during rehersal (not always trying to copy exactly but perfect for my taste ).

- I certainly will plug it again soon to the windows app to make a backup and print the memo list of the library with the name of presets (I have not found the same in ipad app for now!).

Now I will spend more time to play with my guitares than with the software even if I will have to fine tune my presets!

It is really a great amp and I love how it sound.

Philippe

Bonjour Philippe.  Good to hear you have the WM-1 interface working reliably.  That doesn't mean I'm implying it won't do its job properly, only that if you do get problems with network connections they can take an age to fix.  Anyway, that isn't an issue here thank goodness.

Remember about those files, the human readable text version is only for Fredo's Windows app.  The Apple version is wrapped up in Apple's own binary format usually called ".plist", and that can't be opened by normal applications, (deliberately - remember it is Apple! )

It's good to hear you explain about what you have found regarding the library/preset transfers. My belief was that you could set up an individual patch in the iPad app and push that onto the amp where it would be stored but, of course, it would need to be manually placed in memory on the amp. As far as I am aware, (and I could be wrong), there is no MIDI way of commanding the amp to do that. The amp would accept the preset settings and you could play using it but it would not automatically store it and overwrite it into its own patch set.

If you are using the app to its fullest, then surely the idea is to have the app at the centre of things as the sole or at least the main controller making permanent changes. The amp is only a dumb unit that does what it is told by the app "brain". The app can swap between as many files of different preset blocks stored on disc as you then want without anything needing to be done on the amp itself. The amp can hold its own set of patches in its memory and these are not corrupted by anything you experiment with on the app. Once you have the app library as you want it, or you have loaded up a whole new block of presets, it can then be transferred and stored as a whole unit. The app responds to any changes made in the settings of the amp but again, it takes the app to decide to store them locally. I think there is a good point in having one complete set of presets, (on the amp) which will not be altered unless you specifically demand it. Of course, you give up some flexibility like this and that can be an inconvenience if it is important to you but it does have a logic and these are the tradeoffs which must be made in all designs. Some win, some lose I'm afraid.

The workaround for your communication problem should set things right until there is an update which is able to fix it. Glad you can confirm that this works for you.