Black spirit 200 head quit working.

Hi,
Has anyone experienced this?
My BS 200 head all of a sudden just stopped working, turned off and will not turn on again. It makes a soft repeating "chirp" but no lights work or anything else works. Not possible to turn on again. Is there a trick I am missing?
Pretty upset about this because I love the amp tones, but this is unacceptable, I have a gig tomorrow and had to unpack the 40 W tube amp which weights a ton.
Thank you for your help!!

I'm afraid I can't help with the problem. The symptoms are too vague, switched off and won't switch back on, for me to be able to suggest anything helpful in a knowledgeable technical sense. One thing I have done is to move it into the correct Black Spirit forum! It's no good putting it in the Lounge area where the idea is to talk about general stuff, not necessarily even about H&K amps. No one with an interest in Black Spirit amps is going to go there looking to help with tech information.

I don't know the BS amps at all, never seen one in the flesh, but it could be down to something simple such as a faulty mains switch or fuse or even mains transformer, or it could be something very complex like switch on logic of controlling CPUs if they have gone down that route. I would guess that if there are no other BS users out there who know the insides of their amps this may require a trip to your friendly neighbourhood tech to have it checked out.

I've decided i'm going to make the 160 mile round trip & try one of these.

I think you have made a wise decision there Graham.  And I hope you know that it was very hard for me to say "I can't help".  I didn't mean there was anything wrong with your description of the problem, only that the symptoms weren't giving us enough info to make decisions on.  I have never come across the "chirping" sound you talked about but it must be a significant diagnostic point if you had the service manual to look at.

I know it's a pain in the proverbial having to go that far but, if your amp does have a major issue, you want it registered "officially" for warranty purposes if nothing else.  It may also be a very well known phenomenon.  I have posted on the H&K Faecesbook site which is pretty much their preferred method of comms asking them for advice.  They sometimes fall out of the loop with emails and messages from their own site as trade shows and other events take out the support staff for a week at a time but FB can more easily be accessed with shorter responses on the move.  I'll get back to you as soon as they respond.

Does your amp have an AES switch on the back next to the speaker jack? Assuming you do, is it on or off? That is an energy saving feature which turns the amp off after a set period without any input. (For the purists who believe that that would make the amp unusable, the period is about 90 minutes. Usually much longer than a between set break! )

Also, do you have a significant set of custom presets stored on the amp? If not you could just try a factory reset startup to see if this could be a software corruption problem.

I've had a response back from H&K support.  These guys are really great at getting good advice direct from their tech team.  They point out this, (which I had no knowledge of not being a BS user).

H&K Support Team wrote:Hughes & Kettner:  Hi Albert. Well, unfortunately this will be a case of the amp having to go to the tech. If the amp had simply fused, it would no longer be making the chirping sound, which is totally normal, by the way, and is explained in the manual here:-----
Heads up: Black Spirit 200 Floor comes with a universal power supply that works reliably at any mains voltage worldwide and maintains the sound quality wherever you go. When the amp is connected to a mains outlet, it will consume a tiny amount of power – less than 0.5 watts – even when it is switched off. Every seven seconds or so, it will issue a soft chirping sound that is only audible in a very quiet environment. This does not constitute a material defect that can or needs to be repaired.  If this sound bothers you, we recommend that you plug the amp into a switchable extension socket so you can flip its switch to cut off the power supply to the amp.-----
This specific case is most certainly another issue, possibly the power amp, but possibly not. We realise it'll be a trek to the tech, but maybe the store where he got the amp would pay postage charges to ship the amp to them? This will then be looked at under warranty. We hope this helps, and please tell your group member we're sorry there's no more immediate/DIY solution here!
All the best,
Team H&K

So there you have it. I think the tech solution is the only way. I would assume the amp must still be under warranty, is it?

Im replying almost a year later, but my head just did the same thing. I was playing plugged into a cabinet with the master all the way down, only using the redbox output for recording when the amp turned off without warning. Now when plugged in, I hear a chirping sound and I cannot turn the amp on. I've had the amp for about 18 months so far; I would be very disappointed if it stopped working as this wasn't cheap. I'm going to contact H&K and my distributor to see what can be done.

Sorry to hear of your problem John, but it's good to see that my theory of "others finding the info a long time later and still being helped by it so be sure to make it comprehensive" is a sound one.  In the time between the original post and your own problem I have not heard of any more instances of this so I think it does not point to a serious design flaw in the BS.  I would say that the steps suggested above like looking at the AES setting on the back, and performing a full factory reset might still be worth trying.  (Remember a factory reset completely wipes your set of custom presets, so if you have a large set of these only stored in the amp which you can't recover some other way then that is a step you have to think about.)

The chirping is normal, H&K have confirmed this as you can see.  They use a Switched Mode Power Supply which seems to not be isolated even when switched off.  (This is not unusual, I have other modern gear which works that way too.)  Yours is chirping so it looks as though the PSU should be ok.  We never really did get to the bottom of the original problem either nor did we get too much info on the symptoms.

All amps produce noise, usually at least a quiet gentle hiss.  This is usually at a very low level but can normally be heard if you put your ear right up to the speaker.  If you turn your own amp up full at the MV and listen close to the speaker in a quiet room can you hear anything at all?  Even the slightest trace of hiss or hum is important?  Knowing this would help with deciding where the problem most likely lies.

Also, is it possible for you to try taking a signal out of the Preamp Out or Fx Loop Send into another amp to see if that works?  And try putting a signal from another amp's Loop Send into the BS Loop Return to test the power amp section.  I don't even know offhand if the BS has that facility built in but I would imagine it does. I know this flies in the face of your point that the amp doesn't turn on but it may just be possible that some of the amp still works and the rest not being obviously active masks that. (It's slim to tenuous but it should be tried to rule it out.)

I can't advise on more than that I'm afraid as the schematics for the BS are totally different to the other amps in H&K's range and they aren't out in the wild (yet).  In the case of your own model I'm only making educated guesses based on any info people can give me.

It still looks like a tech based fix I'm afraid unless Telecast 2001 or GrahamG can shed any light on how their problem was fixed.

Just to clarify,it wasn't me that had/has the problem with the BlackSpirit,i said I was going to make a 160mile round trip to demo one.
I ended up not buying one,it sounded pretty good,actually very good,but I went glassy eyed at all the options & once again i just couldn't see the Amp controls without my reading glasses(old age problem) ,I don't get why manufacturers make controls that you can't read properly when gigging.
To be fair my Marshall ORI20H had the same problem,'till I bought a vertical 2 x 12".

Thanks for getting back to me after this time Graham, especially so quickly.  I had clocked that you weren't the original poster and you didn't have the amp to experience the problem first hand, (though it was after I made the reply to you all that time back if I'm honest).  The sands of time drift on and senility creeps in!  

As a "close to 70" year old (but still gigging) myself, I am completely at one with your eyesight problem.  I also think that there is a crying need for clarity in controls.  Mind you, do bear in mind that the H&K amps are really intended to be used at their best via MIDI where all the settings are built into a preset accessed with one tap of the foot.  Though not everyone wants to go down that route I agree.  I also like to play "hands on" at times too and it is difficult with the control set that is at our disposal from H&K.  There are some clever twists like the idea of the settings being stored with each channel and selected as you swap channels.  That's a good halfway house.

As an addendum to this idea of clarity of controls, it irritates the heck out of me that the H&K knobs which look so good in full light then vanish into "the blue wall" when you play on stage with lighting switched off.  You can't see what you have set up if you are working manually.  It seems visibility wasn't a high priority when they designed the amps.  I've always thought they missed a trick when they didn't drill out the knob marker point and let the blue light shine through it.

As an even more vague non-H&K aside between the two of us.  I've just taken on board once again the H&K "small amp" ethos which I love and bought a Marshall SC20H Studio Classic.  I've had it a few weeks getting to grips with it and I've already used it very successfully at a couple of small gigs.  Now that is everything I have wanted in an amp for a while.  It's simple to use, has my classic tones, is loud enough to fill any pub/small club, can be wound down with a 5W switch to lower levels without losing touch, and it can be used with any combination of speakers I choose from 1x12" to 4x12".  Like you I prefer a vertical 2x12" (25W G12M Greenbacks or my precious 1960s G12Hs all original).  My '89 JCM800 2210 is fabulous but too loud for sensible pub gigs, as is my original '60s JMP SL100.  The SC20H gives me the same feel at more sensible volumes though it is still loud.  I don't dime my amps, if you have to do that to get tone you don't have a good amp.  I set them to the conditions by ear.  So with the SC20H with its 20W/5W switching I now have a broader range of levels I can get tone and response at.  Just a heads up as you're a Marshall owner.

Of course the H&Ks are still top class amps at what they do!  

Hey bordonbert,

I didn't attempt to fix anything, but I opened up the case and didn't find a blown fuse, so it didn't look like an easy fix. Unfortunately, a factory reset was also not possible as the amp does not even turn on. I wound up contacting H&K, my retailer, and their authorized distributor near my area. The tech at the distributor didn't take a look at it as we were on the phone, but told me the symptoms were likely indicative of a power amp failure. Luckily, H&K includes a 3 year warranty on their products, so the tech informed me I could send it over to him for free repairs! My retailer told me they could ship it for me as well, so all may be well. On top of this, the tech told me if it was a fuse issue, we likely wouldn't be hearing the chirping.

All in all, Im happy with the customer service on the amp; H&K got back in less than a day, and the authorized distributor was really easy to talk to on the phone. I was worried I might have a costly repair or lemon on my hands, but it seems like Ill only need to wait a couple weeks max to get this thing back in working order; it's a great amp, and the integrated redbox feature is what really continues to make this amp work wonders for me.

Excellent news John. I'm glad you got such good service from the guys at H&K, they are known for that.

One thing I would quietly advise, you have said you opened up the amp to check out the fuses. In the previous GM and TM amps, this means taking the base cover off and as far as I know there is no anti-tamper device fitted there. H&K strongly dislike owners getting into the workings of the amp and have been sticky with their advice in the past based on that point. I'm not sure of their attitude to warranty claims in the event of them knowing that an owner has been in there. I would keep it to yourself that you have opened it up if you haven't already told them. I don't know of anyone refused support on the basis of that but you don't want to rock the boat if you can help it.

They even state that valves should also be changed by a qualified technician. In the real world who does that? As manufacturers they have to discourage the incompetent and stupid who can even cause damage during a valve swap. They are out there! For simply changing the valves you need to be aware there is an anti-tamper device inside and it shows them you have had the end caps off. The safe procedure to open the amp up to get to the top chamber for a valve change is simple and has always followed these steps. On each end cap, remove the two top screws and the rear middle level handle screw completely. Ignore the front handle screw it only holds the handle strip to the end cap. Now loosen the bottom two screws only enough to allow the end caps to loosen and flop outward until the cover can be removed. That takes only two or three turns to achieve and leaves the tamper check intact inside.

Incidentally that "power amp" suggestion of your tech is easily tested. If it is just a power amp problem then presumably the PSU and Preamp will still be working. I would have thought you should be able to get a signal out of the Loop Send to another amp. It sounds more fundamental than a power amp problem to me but that's guesswork by someone who doesn't know the amp intimately from a few thousand miles away of course. I think this is more likely to be power supply or control logic related or even in the power soak area. It's difficult in an amp where the servicing procedures are designed around "replace the whole PCB" as most modern units now are. Anyway, you should know soon enough, (if they tell you what genuinely was the matter of course).

Looking forward to hearing it's back in action again. And a heads up even though you don't need it with your full unit. I've just found out about the new Nano Spirit range and posted about it in the BS section. It's a poor man's way of having the Spirit technology in a smaller less flexible amp. The Spirit range sounds like one of the best "valve character" SS systems available at the moment. I'm seriously considering one for a backup to my existing gigging valve amp. My wife thinks we can then get rid of the numerous other amps sitting around collecting dust. (I'll let her dream for a while longer I think.)

Hey, so just wanted to follow up; H&K just returned my amp back to me yesterday in perfect working order! Apparently they also updated and replaced both the preamp and power amp circuits to the newer model, whatever that may entail or mean. Either way, I am very impressed. Ill plug my retailer Long and McQuade too, as they did all the legwork for me totally free, even though my warranty with them had expired (H&K warranty was still valid). Both these companies have a customer for life!

I didnt let anyone know I opened the amp, but in reality I didnt touch anything either, so I figured no harm no foul.

It must have been something more than just the power amp, because the amp would not power on in any capacity. When I plugged the power cable in, I heard a chirping sound out of the left side of the amp (not the speaker) and that was it. Granted, I didnt test the effects out, but given there was no power I dont think it would have worked anyways.

I've seen those little nano units; very cool idea, but I already have the black spirit so Im probs good to go. Ha, I told my gf I would sell my Carvin when I got the black spirit but its still here almost 2 years later so go figure ahaha.

Hahaha! I hear you on that last point. I have a collection of amps which are all "waiting for the right time to be advertised". The wife has believed it every time the list gets added to so far but I'm on short time now I suspect.

Glad to hear that everything worked out fine with the repair. Good to know it needed a shop fix and you were not too short sighted to let that be the solution. Now it's back, just keep on using it to the best of yours and its ability, that's what they are made for. And sure, the H&K guys are extremely good with their support as I have first hand experience to confirm. I've never seen anyone have a bad experience as an honest and genuine owner who deals with them in a respectful way as they deserve. Their response is always open and helpful. (And I'm with you on the opening it up thing. It isn't any big deal with nothing touched. They would have noticed I suspect but they won't make a fuss with no "tweaking" to be seen.)

So this this happened to mine last week I had it only a month bought it as new with m111 FC allegedly 18 months old but used for less than an hour as it was a backup amp for the guys grandmeister.
Contacted U.K. distributor polar audio who are waiting for Germany to come back to them but it is unlikely it will be done under warranty as I’m second owner .
I had a note off a guy in Germany giving me some contact details who said it could well be the condenser ? ( I have never heard of one in an amp before) v

Just in case this occurs again to another members amp I will let you all know the diagnosis and cost. I’m hoping as another member said it’s not a big job and the repair is not too expensive . However another person said with the same had updates to both the pre and power amp. So at tgd moment don’t know much will make class tomorrow queens funeral today so nobody working .

I think he may have said "a" condenser Marky.  A condenser is an old fashioned word for a capacitor, they mean the same thing in electronics terms.  There are very many inside your amp.  Usually tech types think of the power supply capacitors as "the" caps.  In your amp there is a switched mode power supply rather than a standard transformer/diode/capacitor type of circuit.  This relies on a number of them some of which run at high voltages and he may have been referring to one of them.

Please do keep us up to date with what needs to be done and costs. That would be very helpful for others I'm sure.

For anyone else who comes across this with a BS200 which won't turn on the solution has been found. Member Markyb had the same problem and put his in for repair. He now has a copy of a H&K Service Bulletin where they explain to their repair centres what is happening.

You can find it in Post #6 here: H&K Service Bulletin with solution to not switching on.

Thanks for sharing that Marky.