Problems with my new Black Spirit 200 Amp Head

This is my first amp head. I am hoping to use it with a Fender Frontman 212R amplifier. I have checked the corresponding values for ohms and watts - the amp has two speakers wired in series at 8 ohms a piece, so that matches the 8 to 16 ohm output of the BS200. The two speakers are each 50 watts, so I have the BS200 set at 20 watts on rear of device. I have the BS200 connected to the Frontman 212R through the PWR IN jack, and the guitar connected to the Input jack of the BS200. However, when I play the instrument no sound comes from the amplifier. I have the Master volume of BS200 above zero. When I crank up the volume, I hear a whisper of sound. Should I be connecting the BS200 to the Input jack on the amplifier? I know enough that when I connect the guitar to the input jack on a combo amp, the signal is passed from the preamp (signal very small) to the power amp, where it is amplified enough to drive the speakers. Perhaps, I am wrong in assuming that the BS200 includes a power amp? BTW, the specs on the amplifier suggest that the preamp output is 4 ohms. If I did connect the BS200 to the input would this cause damage to the preamp? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Matt Armshaw

Hi Matt.  I'm not sure from your description what you are trying to achieve.  From what I can see of the Fender Frontman 212R it has no external speaker socket to feed your BS200 into.  How do you mean you want to connect the two up together?  You could take the BS200 Fx Loop out and put that into the Power In socket of the Fender but that seems to defeat the object of having an amp of the class of the BS200.  Let's start at the beginning.

The BS200 is a complete Preamp/Power Amp combination.  It needs no other external power amp to work.  In fact, to get the best out of it, it should not have any other power amp in the signal path.  Your Frontman will not like having the main output from the BS200 pushed through its Power In socket.  Your BS200 will detect the Frontman's Power In input circuitry as a high impedance and shut itself off.  You cannot connect them like that.

The BS200 is designed to have a speaker load put on its output.  Only when driving that 8-16ohm load will the protection circuitry allow the amp to work.  Outside of the 8-16ohm range you risk damage to the BS200.  You need a dedicated speaker cabinet or a combo amp which has the ability to totally isolate the speaker and amp sections, sometimes with a Plug/Socket which can de separated, or sometimes by an "External Power" socket which switches from its own amp to the plugged in one.  That would allow you to feed your BS200 output directly to the speaker.  I don't think you have that in your Frontman.

If you really want to go ahead and use the Frontman power amp you could use the BS200's DI Out socket.  This is a XLR connector so would need a different cable but it is the correct signal to use as an input to another amp.  That uses both the preamp and power amp of the BS200 to get full features like power line sagging which the preamp alone would not do. The Redbox, when switched on, adjusts the signal to compensate for the sound of the missing guitar speaker cabinet but you do not need that with your setup as the Frontman has its own speaker cabinet to give that.  For a simpler less BS200 controlled setup you could use the Fx Loop Send into the Frontman Power In socket too. That comes from before all of the BS200 power amp circuitry so you lose features.

Where did you see that the Preamp Out of the BS200 was 4ohms?  That would make it another power amp!  It should be in the range of kilohms.  I have looked through the spec in the manual and can't see anything listed as 4 ohms.

Thanks for the response. When I bought the BS200 amp head, I thought that connecting the guitar to the BS200's Input, then BS200's Speaker Out directly into the F212R's PWR IN jack, would 'replace' the F212R's preamp and power amp, sending the signal directly to the speakers on the F212R - I would be using the F212R as an speaker cabinet, with the BS200 acting as the preamp and poweramp.

On a number of sites they say that I can in fact feed the F212R's PRE OUT to another power amp (hoping the BS200 acts as this), then connect the Speaker Out back into the F212R's PWR IN, but I think I might be misreading and do not want to attempt this without better knowledge.

Currently (as stated in last post), I have nothing connected to the PRE OUT on F212R, with the Speaker Output on BS200 attached to the PWR IN, and the guitar attached to the BS200's Input - this setup only makes a whisper of the sounds from the guitar. I thought perhaps if I attached the F212R's PWR IN to the BS200's Input, then the BS200's Speaker Out back into the F212R's PWR IN, with the guitar attached to the F212R's input, that maybe this would work? I was really hoping that this option would work (yes/no?).

I will spend some time tonight researching Red Box and FX loops options.  

Thanks,
Matt

I am having a terrible time finding information on the Red Box output. I do understand that I can use it to connect to PA, mixing console, recording equipment, etc. How do I connect it to the combo amp? Above you stated as "an input to another amp", so I should just go DI Out to Input jack on the combo amp? I checked and can get an XLR to 1/4" cable for about $12.00, so this would be great for me.

Thanks,
Matt

I think you are imagining you need to do too much with what you have Matt.  Your plans of taking outputs from one amp into inputs on the other and then back again are maybe a bit too complex to be practical.  Your best bet is to just use the BS200 as much as you can.  It has by far the best tone shaping options out of the two so put that to good use as much as possible.  Just to put something right for reference, the Frontman does not have its speakers in series to give 16ohm, they are in parallel for 4 ohms.  The power amp is a transistor design specified to drive 4 ohms loads to 100W.  With a 16 ohm load it would only give about 25W.  Transistor designs are often designed to drive lower imnpedance loads as that mean lower line voltages inside.

Your first step is always going to be guitar into BS200 input.  Then use as much of the BS200 as possible before taking the signal over to the Frontman for its speaker.  Ideally you would not use the Frontman at all, you simply need a speaker cabinet for the BS200 to come into its own completely.  However, with the way the Frontman is wired that is not available so the Power In socket of the Frontman is the next best option.  This is the input to its power amp stage so you need a signal taken from before the BS200's power amp.  The output from the BS200's speaker out would be too big to use for this purpose even if the protection circuitry would allow it to run connected this way.

You have two options, you can use the DI output from the XLR socket or you can use the Fx Send of the BS200.  The simplest which you can probably try straight off is to link the BS200 Fx Send to the Frontman's Power In.  Make sure to start with your BS200 Volume turned down low, there is always some degree of imbalance of signal levels between different amps.  As you are feeding the signal into the Frontman after its preamp controls you can only control the signal with the BS200 but that is better suited to the job anyway.

The DI out via the XLR into your Frontman Power In input should do the trick too and may sound better - or it may not.  The advice there is the same in terms of signal levels, make sure to turn the BS200 Volume down low before linking up.  I would also turn off the Redbox Speaker Simulation too as you already have a real speaker cabinet in the chain.  The DI output is intended to add the tone of the BS200 power amp into the signal for feeding into a flatter sounding system like a PA or even a hifi.  You may find that having the BS200 preamp then the BS200 power amp then the Frontman power amp all contributing in turn to the signal shaping is too much.  If it sounds rough you have the Fx Send option to fall back on.

Try the Fx Send to Power In setup first as that takes no new cables to try, a normal guitar or pedal patch cable will do.  If you can get that working you might fall in love with the sound of it in which case problem solved.  If not then you need a XLR to 1/4" cable or converter just as you said.  It's a pity you can't just borrow one to try the method out first.  Still the ideal solution is to get a dedicated speaker cabinet and use the BS200 exclusively to drive it.  If you can just borrow one to try that would let you see how good the BS200 actually is when doing what it was really designed to do.

First off, thanks for your continued help. My first impression was simply to attach the BS200 between the F212R's PRE OUT and PWR IN (guitar to F212R input, F212R's PRE OUT to BS200 Input, BS200 Speaker Out to F212R's PWR IN); I think my communication skills were lacking. This would simply put the BS200 in the effects loop of the F212R. However, I am thinking that this would give two power amps to the speakers (sounds dangerous).

I like the idea of using the fx loop or the Redbox out. Can you confirm the following:

guitar to BS200 input, BS200 FX Send to F212R PWR IN
guitar to BS200 input, BS200 Red Box (Red Box level to Line and Speaker Simulation OFF)

In either case, the PRE OUT is not used at all? Then keep Master volume on BS200 off when turning on?

You mentioned that the wiring for the F212R is parallel - I thought series because they were connected in order. After looking on the net, it seems like I could easily change the wiring to series if necessary, by connecting the two speakers via the ground on speaker 1 to the live on speaker two, then connect ground on speaker 2 to ground coming from inside the amp. Does this have any effect if I use one of the two above setups?

Thanks a Ton!
Matt

You are getting there but there are still a couple of concepts you haven't grasped.  Let me point something out just for safety.  On the back of the BS200 next to the Speaker Out socket is written the following:

"Caution!  Connect to speakers and cabinets only!  Connection with grounded devices (e.g. Power Soak or DI box) will cause serious damage."  You can include Amp Inputs, Fx Loop Returns and Power In sockets to that list as well as they are all grounded.  Bear that in mind.  The only thing you should connect that Speaker Out to is an isolated speaker which is not still connected by a cable to an amp in any way.  Ok, onwards and upwards...

The F212R has a speaker which is permanently connected to its power amp.  There is no way to separate them other than disconnecting the existing wiring totally.  This means that you cannot under any circumstances connect the BS200s power amp directly to the F212R's speakers as things stand.  The BS200 speaker out is totally redundant.  It can't be used in any way.  The way to view this is, if you are going to use the F212R as your speaker, then you MUST accept its power amp will be the driving unit for that speaker.  There is just no way to connect the BS200 power amp direct to the F212R speaker without surgery on the speaker wiring.

Once you get that then the idea must be to use the BS200 as the preamp.  Total!  Using the F212R preamp and taking the Loop Send to the BS200 then back again to the F212R is pointless and adds in more circuitry than you need or want.  It isn't an improvement to add more and more tone shaping stages, there is a simple need for only a few stages then the sound suffers, badly.  And you would have both sets of controls working at the same time and against each other.  A nightmare to use in practice.  I'm not sure why you want to hang on to so many of the F212R's circuit blocks when the BS200 is far more advanced and offers much better functionality, much more sound variety than the dedicated Fender, and very likely far better sound quality too.  The ideal situation to start with is the first one you mention:

1) Guitar -> BS200 input;  BS200 FX Send -> F212R Power In;  F212R power amp drives its own speaker

That is simple classic stuff.  It will allow the BS200 to be your complete control section as the F212R Power In socket lies after its own preamp control section and isolates the preamp signal line when a plug is inserted.  The pots on the F212R will just do nothing to the signal at all.  This means that the BS200 power amp section and the F212R preamp section are both redundant.

I would try that first, then if it does not sound what you want tonally, you could try the second approach:

2) Guitar -> BS200 input;  BS200 Red Box XLR -> F212R Power In (Red Box level to Line and Speaker Simulation OFF);  F212R power amp drives its own speaker

This will still put the BS200 controls in charge, the F212R preamp and controls will still be redundant.  It now adds the BS200 power amp into the path but does not use its power, just a smaller version of its output signal at line level.  This may not be a good thing!  You now have the BS200 power amp output in the Redbox signal which feeds the F212R power amp direct.  The Redbox will drop the signal level to suit the F212R but there will be two power amp contributions to signal shaping and tone.

It is not possible to predict which of these you will prefer, (personally I suspect the first simpler way will be better overall), but common sense says try the first one as it is easier to set up with your existing cables.  It costs you nothing to try it.  If it is really not what you want then get your hands on a XLR cable and try the second method.

The only other alternative is to butcher the F212R speaker setup and use the speakers independently of the amp.  You would need to remove all connections to the speakers completely.  Tuck them up somewhere securely and DON'T plug in or turn the amp on again!  The speakers will be wired with +ve -> +ve and -ve -> -ve at the moment.  That is your 2x8ohms in parallel for 4 ohms total. The existing connections from the amp will be one to the joined +ves and the other to the joined -ves.  You will need to remove those connections between the speakers too and rewire them as +ve Spkr1 -> -ve Spkr2.  The power amp connections will then be to the two unused terminals, Spkr 1 -ve and Spkr2 +ve, that is to the unused terminal on each speaker.  This would give you the ability to connect the BS200 Speaker Output directly to the F212R speaker and to not use anything at all of the F212R's electronics.  Once again there is no guarantee that this will sound as you would want it.  Speaker choice is very important to overall sound, particularly with the older H&K amps where it is almost crucial, and swamps the effect of any valve swap known to man! The BS200 should be a lot more forgiving (on paper) but it still may not sound at its best with the F212R speakers.  You would have to try it to see.

I would really recommend you at least consider getting a separate speaker cab and use only the BS200.  It is totally superior in every way to the Frontman 212R. That way you have a setup where all the parts are made to work together and there is no fuss with wiring between two units, and you have a modern high quality amp with very flexible sound emulating valve sounds which the F212R just cannot do anywhere near as well with its transistor/opamp preamp and power amp.  The sound should be best from the all H&K setup.  If you take the money you would spend on a XLR cable it isn't much more to buy a used speaker.  At least give that a try somewhere, even a shop should let you try out speakers with your own amp or maybe even their own BS200, and you will see how it sounds.

Again, thanks for the help. I hooked the two amps up using the FX Send jack to PWR IN. Sounds really good, but only on Clean channel. Crunch is a bit louder than I'm comfortable with, Lead and Ultra channels alot louder than I'm comfortable with, at the lowest level. Also, seems like Master volume does not affect loudness at all, Volume just a bit, and mostly Gain affecting the overall volume coming out of the F212R on the Clean channel. In the manual it says Volume is "to adjust preset levels and adjust their relative balance to other presets", to me this sounds like shaping, rather than increasing volume. I will pickup a XLR to 1/4" cable before the weekend. See how this affects the volume. If I am missing something towards the channels volume issue please let me know. I checked each channel with all controls reduced to zero, then moved them up in combinations.

Matt

No, the Volume control, (not the Master Volume), really is just as they say, a volume control where its setting is remembered independently with each channel. The idea is that you adjust each channel Volume to bring the quiet ones up and the loud ones down. There is no tone shaping involved, only straight level adjustment but it is limited in how low it can go. There is a minimum level that that control can drop to and there is a reason for that.

As I said, the setting of this control is stored with each channel. Let's say you max the Volume control for the Clean channel then select the Crunch channel and lower the setting of the Volume control until its level sounds the same. When you kick back to the Clean channel it should change to how you previously set it, i.e. on a higher setting than the Crunch. And when you swap back to Lead the level should drop down to suit that channel Volume setting. In each case the channel levels should stay equal even though the setting in the Volume pot is changing. In that way it only adjusts the relative volumes of each channel (or preset). The Master Volume then takes care of your overall level and remains the same for all channels.

One thing that confuses people is that once you swap channels and the Volume setting changes, you cannot see that reflected in the setting of the volume knob. The knob does not turn to the new setting but the programmed pot inside the amp does. Here's a tip. If you want to see the current setting of any control because it is now out of step with the knob position, just turn the knob until the blue LED blips, (I can't remember offhand which one it is but you should see it). That LED flash shows when you have reached the current setting. Once you turn the knob past that it takes over control of the pot and resets it of course so you need to leave it where the LED flashed to stay at your original setting.

As regards the Master Volume, you are most likely right. I had forgotten that, if the BS200 is set up the same way the GM36 is, the Master Volume control comes after the preamp outputs for Fx Loop and Preamp Out. That is a problem as the F212R has no Volume control after the Power In socket. As things stand it looks like you have no Master Volume control, and there is no way to get one other than using the BS200 Redbox XLR output. That would put the MV back in circuit but it will also add the BS200's power amp into the signal chain as well as the F212R's power amp. Levels will match but you then have shaping performed by two power amps one after the other. That will be unpredictable and you would have to try it to see whether it is acceptable or too rough. As things are now you will have to use just the Volume control to set the levels for each channel separately.

Don't worry about how low you have to set the higher gain ones and how high you need the lower gain ones to achieve balance. Set each channel Gain to how you like the sound of your distortion, then follow by setting the Volume control to the level you want for that channel. The Volume control has no effect on tone in the sense that it makes no adjustment of that, it is purely altering the signal level equally across the whole frequency range.

The only other thing I can say is, DON'T BE TEMPTED TO USE THE BS200'S SPEAKER OUTPUT FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN A SPEAKER! Remember that H&K warning printed on the back. I would still urge you to try out your BS200 with a dedicated speaker just to see how it sounds. Getting rid of the F212R from the setup completely is the best move you could make. Can you not borrow one for an hour or two or get to a music store with your amp to try one out?

Yesterday I rewired the speakers on the F212R to a series configuration. When I tested the amp, I was amazed to hear zero noise (outside of the guitar signal). Before I rewired I would get a lot of noise from the amp at very low volume settings. I chalked this up as normal - all my amps so far have been Fender (and I am figuring were wired parallel as well), and all had some 'noise' when I was sending no signal through it.

I also went ahead and bought a Hosa XLR3F to 1/4" TRS adapter and a Hosa 1/4" coupler. I will test this setup with the Red Box output over the weekend. I am also thinking about re-wiring the speakers leads with 'disconnect pair' terminals and adding a 1/4" input jack that I can connect right to the speaker setup so that I can use the BS200's Speaker Out directly to the speaker terminals.

Thanks for the help. I will post when finished just to let you know how it goes.

Matt

Good news that it worked out.  If you are capable of that wiring of the socket I really think that is the best way forward for you at the moment.  As you have found with your description of the noise, the BS200 is a much more refined and advanced amplifier than the poor old starter level workhorse of the F212R.  Setting it up that way, you can get rid of all of the F212R's electronics in favour of only the BS200 which will definitely be a good move.  I am sure you will prefer the sound you get from that.  The F212R is very basic and nowhere near as tonally advanced as the BS200 and it isn't simple in the way which leads to great sounds, just to serious compromises.  Aspects like noise and playing dynamics are not high on the list of strengths of amps in the class of that Fender.  They are a design consideration in the BS200.

One thing you must consider is this.  Some wiring diagrams to make an internal speaker accessible for an external amplifier only break the live line and leave the ground always connected.  In your case, you CANNOT do it that way!  The BS200 is a Class D power amp and that means it has a floating output.  If one terminal of that gets grounded via the F212R electronics, even with that amp switched off, you WILL damage the BS200 power amplifier.  Make sure to get the switching set up so the connections to both of the wires between the FS212R output transformer and the speaker are broken.  I've added a pic of the wiring.  Sorry if I am teaching granny to suck eggs again but, while you may not need this, others coming across it might be helped by it.

The pic shows the connections to a simple switched jack socket.  Notice that each leaf of the socket has two terminals with one of them folded over the top of the other.  When no plug is inserted these make contact together so any signal is passed through from one terminal to the other.  Inserting a plug breaks their connection and swaps it for connection with the plug.  Figure out which of those two terminals will be connected when a plug is inserted and make sure that one is your speaker connection.  The internal power amp connection goes to the two terminals which will be isolated when the plug is fitted.  The terminal furthest from the mounting nut should be the +ve.  

One other thing to note is that your speakers are now in series not parallel.  When you use the F212R the maximum power will drop to about 1/4x, that is about 25W.  That might even make it more playable indoors.

One other thing you could consider is to add a power resistor to the socket so that the F212R output sees some load even when it is disconnected.  This ensures the power amp will be stable under all conditions.  You should not have it even turned on when using the BS200 into its speaker but accidents will happen, we all make them.  It would be a shame to have it damage itself when it isn't even being used.  Something around 120ohms 2Watt will do.  It isn't low enough to have any effect on the amp in normal use when the speaker impedance is low enough to dominate but helps when the speaker load is removed.  This would need to be soldered directly across the F212R output terminals on the new socket, (the ones which are isolated with a plug in).  Just make sure to get the wires to the correct pair of terminals!

Let us know how you get on with this.  It is an interesting project.

I can't access the attachment. I provided a schematic for what I plan on doing. Does it look right?

That's not too clear I'm afraid.  It doesn't show how anything is going to be connected together only what connectors you will have attached to each item.  Are you proposing joining the male speaker connectors to the female Input Jack connectors permanently and leaving the Fender permanently out of circuit?  That should not be necessary with the right standard jack socket type.

Are you using a switched jack socket which looks like my picture?  That is the standard type.  If you are then that should have four terminals on it not just two.  You must use a switched jack socket type to be able to have the Fender connected with no plug inserted and then to switch over to the H&K when the H&K cable plug is inserted into the socket.  The sockets you want are usually a black plastic body with metal strips slotted into its sides for the wiring terminals and socket contacts, two to each side.  These fold over the top of the body to make contact with each other on one side.  When the plug is inserted it pushes up the pair for one side and the contact with the opposite side is broken.  Is yours like that?

I have attached a pic of how this type of socket should be connected.  The Fender amp is connected permanently to the two terminals which we can't see on the blind side of the socket.  It's impossible to get a pic which shows all four terminals at the same time.  Note that the speaker wires must be attached to the side with the longer terminals over the top so it is attached to the plug cable when the plug is inserted.

The box where your picture is says I do not have permission to download. If you could embed the picture directly to the message area I could see it. I was hoping to use spade terminals so I could easily change between the combo amps preamp/poweramp to speakers and the BS200's preamp/poweramp to speakers. I would like to have the ability to go back to using the combo amp the way was to begin with.

Matt

Here is the pic again:



Doing it that way the Fender works just as it did originally, except for the reduced power because of the new 16ohm speaker wiring of course.  That won't bother the Fender as it is a solid state amp.  The Fender is completely disconnected when an external plug is inserted into the socket and the plug is then connected direct to the speakers.  The H&K is on the end of that plug via a normal speaker cable and so it is then your working amp.

If you get a 1/4" socket with the wide flat terminals like the one in the picture, not one with pointed terminals for soldering into a PCB, you can connect all of that with spade terminals just as you want as they are the correct size for them.

Here is a pic of what you need to get:



The first pic shows you the 4 terminals.  One side is for the Frontman and the other for the speaker.

The second shows you the longer sprung terminals folding over the top of the socket.  These are the ones the plug will push against and lift when it is inserted.  You should connect your speaker to this pair with the positive to the one furthest away from the end in which you fit the plug so it is the tip.

The third shows the shorter terminals which the longer ones sit on making contact with them when there is no plug fitted.  I have ringed one of the contact points. This means the top leaf will be moved upwards breaking the contact with the shorter one underneath when you push in the plug.

This socket has the right sized terminal to accept 1/4" spade connectors just as you wanted.  These sockets are easily available.  This one has a tidier metal front bezel for fitting into front panels.  There are some with plastic nuts on the front which are a little cheaper and are easier to fit which are more suitable for your needs.

I was unaware they made such a jack (socket). I ordered some today, but I expect that won't be here for awhile. Thanks again, you saved me an my equipment from certain disaster. If you guys can keep this topic open, I will be update as soon as the jacks arrive.

Matt

I found another seller, so I should have a socket jack by next week. I am wondering about the wattage output of the BS200. It has a selector for 2, 20, and 200 watts. My speakers are rated at 100 watts. I saw on the net that it is recommended for the amp's wattage to be half again as high as the speaker's rating (so for 100 watt speakers, 150 watts is recommended), but this was a site for home audio. Is this true for guitar amp setups as well? I am thinking that running the BS200 at 200 watts with the volume set at zero, then increasing to something comfortable.

Also, can you expand on the statement - "One other thing you could consider is to add a power resistor to the socket so that the F212R output sees some load even when it is disconnected."

Matt

Fitting that load resistor would require soldering and it doesn't look as though you would want to go down that route.  You would simply solder the F212R leads to the correct socket terminals instead of using spade terminals and then solder the resistor over he top between those same contacts.  It will make no real difference as long as you make sure the Fender is never switched on when you are using the BS200.  Transistor amps are a lot more forgiving of impedance (or lack of it) than valve amps which should NEVER be operated without a load on their output.  Even if you forgot and had it turned on it is not likely you would cause any damage but there are a few amps which can become unstable and oscillate with no load on them.  We would hope Fender get that sorted out in their designs.  I wouldn't worry about it for now and just make sure to never turn on the Fender with the BS200 plugged in.

Don't even worry about the speaker powers.  With your 100W speakers you are not going to be running them anywhere near their maximum for home use.  You will be running your BS200 at 20W maximum and your speakers are easily able to cope with that all day long.  As a measure of this, I play classic rock, (proper classic rock i.e. Free, Bad Company, Rolling Stones etc) in a gigging band.  I have a Marshall SC20H 20W head which I currently gig with.  I have to use that on the 5W setting in reasonably large venues and it is more than ample to balance myself with the rest of the band, and we have a loud drummer.  When I used to use my GM36 for gigging I could not use it above the 18W setting in the largest of rooms.  For home playing you will not need more than the 20W level and you may even find the 2W level is plenty loud enough.  Just set it where you need and leave it there permanently.  200W is WAY WAY WAY beyond anything you could use in your home unless you live in an ex-cinema or you are a registered sociopath.  Select 2W and play.  Set the Gain where you find your best overdriven tone and then adjust the Volume to set the overall level.  Anywhere between about 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock is good if it sounds right to you.  If you are getting too far up the Gain/Volume settings for your liking then swap to 20W and start again.  Don't fall for any of the "diming everything is the only way to get good tone" crap you hear on guitar forums, that is musician's hype and totally unnecessary.  I wouldn't even contemplate using the 200W setting in a home.

As a guide to power requirements have a look at this pic.



That is Milton McDonald one of the guitarists in Jeff Lynn's ELO. You can see his stage rig there, 2x H&K GM36s.  He used these playing their outdoor concert in Hyde Park.  Now these are fed into the front of house setup of course but even so, that is easily powerful enough for him to create the right feel onstage - out of doors - in a massive stage space in Hyde Park.  You don't ever need as much as you think you do. I have three Marshall 100W classic models which I simply can't use for anything nowadays as they are just too loud and can't even be turned down to any level where they remain playable.

Awesome. Thanks for all the help, you have been very patient. I'm ordering the 1/4" jack socket tonight from Amazon. Will see when it gets here, but I'm fairly certain you answered all of my questions. I will post later on to update progress (and if there are any problems   ).


Matt

My sockets came today, but turns out I did not check for connector type. The ones I received are PCB connectors. I can order from ebay, but delivery times are awful coming from China. I am not having much luck finding anything in the US. Does anyone have an internet link or web site for purchasing 1/4" socket jacks with spade terminals (or solderable terminals) in UK/Europe?

Matt

Look for Neutrik NMJ4HF-S. That is the spade terminal switched type from Neutrik, a good plug and socket manufacturer. These should be easily available in the US. Mouser Electronics or even Amazon should do them.

Here is a link to an ebay seller in the US who supplies them over here. I would guess if you looked for his shop on ebay you would find them there.

1/4" Switched Jack US Ebay
.

I order the Neutrick jack from ebay and it arrived today. I plan on installing this weekend. I may have further questions, but think I should be good. I will post when mod is complete, hopefully with no problems!

Matt:D

All is well. Successfully wired the input jack, Black Spirit sound greats. Thanks a ton for all the help! One question - is there any chance for damage if the disconnect terminals within the new wiring become disconnected while the amp is on or when later turning the amp on?

Matt

Well done for getting it up and running.  Glad everything worked out in the end.  I do have a little mantra that I remind myself of now and again, "A moment of embarrassment is better than a lifetime of ignorance."  You weren't frightened to go on asking what you needed.  You got there!

This is the last bit of advice you need relative to having your Fender wired this way.

Point 1, the BS200 has a solid state output stage.  These are much more forgiving than valve outputs and should not suffer a problem when they are turned on with no load applied.  It is possible that some output stages could oscillate under those no load conditions but a good quality design like the H&K BS should not suffer from this.  So there should be no complications for your BS200 as long as the error is an open circuit no load condition and not a dead short applied.  Valve amps can handle them for a while but transistor amps don't like dead shorts.  Even though the better ones have short circuit protection built in this often is only a delay of damage and continued use could burn out components.

Point 2, the Fender has a valve output.  These must never be run without a load on them.  Having no load at all, (effectively an infinite impedance), is actually more dangerous to them than having a complete short circuit.  This means that running them without a load applied is very destructive and that means expensive in valve amp terms.  When you plug in an external amp to your new socket it removes the speaker load on the Fender output.  That was why I suggested the idea of adding a permanent resistor across the Fender amp so if it was ever accidentally run without the speaker load it had something in place to offer some output load rather than an infinite one.  This isn't a problem if it is switched off of course, so just make sure you never have the Fender up and running when you plug in an external amp and swap the speaker load to that and keep it switched of all the time you are using the speaker with the other amp.

Point 3, jack plugs and sockets are primitive devices, not high quality pieces of design.  They were invented to allow telephone exchanges to work with quick plugged connections by human operators.  They do that very well.  They aren't high quality components which preserve safe conditions under all aspects of their use.  Particularly, there is a distinct shorting action in some applications when a plug is inserted into the socket.  While it is travelling up the tube there are a number of poorly defined conditions in the circuit until it is finalised and in place.  These may or may not be a problem to us using one as a switching speaker connector.  In your case the BS200 MUST have a floating load.  That means it must have both sides of the speaker NOT connected to any ground or earth.  Your Fender amp has one side of its speaker output leads grounded and it shares that ground with the circuitry of the BS200 through their shared us of the mains.  When you put in the jack plug from the BS200 it's tip first contacts the ground contact of the socket which means you are grounding it in terms of the BS200 too.  That is not a good condition even though it is only for an instant until the contact switch opens and the ground is broken.  My advice is always to check you have the plug fully inserted so any amp is set up when cold and only then turned on.  It may be a bit fussy but it is safest and it is a pretty easy rule to apply.

That info should answer your question so, yes, it could damage the Fender if it is switched on when the load is switched to the BS200.  Do remember, it is amazing how many times each of us turns on an amp to suddenly realise we have it wired wrong.  I still do that very occasionally.  It is unlikely to eat your output stage in one instant but it is stress the amp could well do without.  Build that little habit of always having a quick look at the speaker connections and you will get past that and never (hahaha, did I say never?   ) make that mistake.

Enjoy your new BS200.  I'm sure you will really find that it sounds so much better on its own as you now have it set up.  Keep us up to date with your ideas on what sounds you generate.